Are more express services needed along the south coast?

[Schweir]

Currently, Southern services take approximately 2 hrs between Southampton Ctl, making multiple stops at relatively minor stops (e.g Durrington On Sea & Ford) whereas the GWR "express" services only take 1hr40. With the GWR services to Brighton potentially being withdrawn, surely there is a need for more faster express services along the south coast, only stopping at the major towns/agglomerations? Having to make this slow journey on a regular basis must be frustruating.

 

[swt_passenger]

The GWR services aren’t being withdrawn, DfT decided against it after consultation. In general no-one can operate more fast services, there just aren’t enough passing loops.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The limitations might be the 2tph West Worthing stoppers and the 2tph Littlehamptons

Don't forget there is a Brighton - Portsmouth semi too, even though it is 1tph

 

[jfisher21]

As an occasional traveller to Goring on Sea, I thought it strange that the Southampton train stopped and the Portsmouth one (less distance) did not.

 

[ABDeltic]

There used to be a really good service from Reading/Basingstoke to Brighton every hour run by SWT which finished about 10 years ago. Only stopped Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Shoreham, Worthing, Hove along the coast as well as providing an extra train Reading to Winchester, Fareham etc. It was a big loss when withdrawn but rarely mentioned now.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

Wasn't the Southampton to Brighton service introduced to replace this? It presumably stops at many stations east of Chichester because it is very popular with travellers towards Brighton from these. It has little competition time wise because the parallel A27 is dreadful with many stops as well. Oh but they plan to improve that, or at least every few years they have a consultation that comes to nothing. So the train will always be preferable.

 

[LLivery]

Brighton to Southampton feels like it's crawling but I assume the nature of the line makes it difficult to speed up. I also think the stopping service being hourly between Southampton and Fareham really isn't good enough.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

As a regular Swanwick passenger it is immensely frustrating that due to the sheer journey time between Victoria and Swanwick direct it’s better, even if more expensive, to go to Southampton and change.

As an aside before I continue, I think more trains are needed on the Fareham - Southampton corridor; sadly due to the poor signalling down there it can’t happen. Towns such as Netley and Woolston are getting a lot bigger (as is St Denys) and they need a much better service.

On the South Coast, if I remember correctly you’ve got 5tph between Barnham and Havant with a Littlehampton - Southsea stopper, Victoria - Portsmouth, Victoria - Southampton, Brighton - Portsmouth and a Brighton - Southampton.

The biggest issue seems to have always been balancing the needs of the towns between Hove and Havant to give them a direct service to London (even if hourly) as well as services to Brighton and a spread of destinations like Portsmouth and Southampton. I believe the Littlehampton starter is done because they need the extra service via Chichester but don’t have capacity via Worthing?

Interestingly it’s also worth remembering under Connex the hourly service to Southampton at one point was a disasterous service from Littlehampton only which meant empty trains; and at other points it was a direct service to Bournemouth! How times change.

Personally, I’d like to see the operator keep the two fast Victoria - Havant via Horsham services (with portions); but ensure these two services are relatively fast along the Coastway west of Chichester. If that means one train stops at Emsworth and Havant and the other is Havant only then so be it; the passenger usage figures along the Coastway are pretty light at the small stations.

I’d also go so far as to operate both services from London to Southampton. The reason for this is that there are options for passengers on South West for cheaper tickets on slower trains and, with Portsmouth having 4tph via various routes to Waterloo, a token London service is of little use.

For these London to Southampton services, I’d call for both services to stop at Cosham, Fareham, Swanwick and St Denys (best connections to the Airport outside of Central), and have calls on one of two of the half-hourly services at Bedhampton, Portchester, Netley and Woolston.

For Coastway passengers between Barnham and Havant (local stations), I’d suggest the Brighton to Portsmouth services be ‘tucked in’ behind the Victoria to Southampton services at Ford so as to ensure good connections at Barnham; but also to further offer connections from Brighton to Bognor. The Brighton to Portsmouth services with various levels of stops on the Coast (west of Barnham, they’d be semi-fast from Hove to Barnham due to the West Worthing stoppers), would then go through to Portsmouth Harbour.

The Littlehampton additional service could be operated to Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour, or it could even go to Winchester via Botley and then reverse via the Baltic Siding. With a stop at Hedge End (improves service there), and then at Eastleigh (good connections for local Coastway stations to Airport) it would actually be very useful.

With a need for a 5th train per hour between Fareham and Southampton, I’d look to decelerate the GWR slightly with an additional call at Swanwick (this used to happen in peak and is very useful for the numbers of leisure travellers I see in the area that use Swanwick as a railhead for other local towns), and I’d suggest splitting the Romsey Rounder so as the provide a service from Salisbury to Portsmouth (Dean, Dunbridge, Romsey, Southampton, St Denys, appropriate smaller stations, Swanwick, Fareham, Portchester, Cosham, Hilsea, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea) to relieve the Portsmouth - Cardiff and also to improve the service on the Three Rivers. The other service would be a Salisbury - Totton (Romsey, Chandlers Ford, Eastleigh, Airport, Swaythling, St Denys, Southampton, Millbrook, Redbridge, Totton). The Salisbury - Totton could be extended back to Swindon every 2 hours (improved service to Melksham etc) and to Yeovil Junction/Pen Mill every 2 hours (additional capacity west of Salisbury and new journey opportunities).

 

[VT 390]

Why don't GWR run there faster service from Southampton to Brighton every 2 hours (starting at Bristol to provide more capacity Bristol-Southampton) and then Southern run a service with the same stopping pattern as GWR in the alternative hours, this way there is still an hourly service from Southampton to Brighton but faster. On this service I would have it call additionally at Swanwick and Portchester on both GWR and Southern services so they maintain their Brighton service and then divert the slower Southern Brighton to Southampton service to Portsmouth. This way it speeds up the Brighton to Southampton services, increases capacity from Bristol to Southampton and improves connectivity between the south coast and Salisbury and Bristol.

 

[Meerkat]

Why was the GWR service to Brighton kept going?
End to end is presumably quicker by London, i am surprised many want to go across Southampton who aren’t going to Portsmouth, it must import delay risk, andhas Diesels on a long stretch of electrified line.

 

[VT 390]

Why was the GWR service to Brighton kept going?
End to end is presumably quicker by London, i am surprised many want to go across Southampton who aren’t going to Portsmouth, it must import delay risk, andhas Diesels on a long stretch of electrified line.

The direct Brighton to Bristol GWR services are quite useful, though I do think they should not go beyond Bristol ti Cardiff Central and Great Malvern as they do currently having a direct Bristol service is very good.
Also the Bristol to London services seam to be around 3 hours 32 minutes via London and the direct service 3 hours 35 minutes which is not much longer than changing at London but is a lot easier (no cross London Tube travel) and is cheaper. The current journey times also have some waits at stations such as 5 minutes at Bath Spa and Westbury so should be possible to get the journey time down. Also it provides connections from Brighton to the south west at Salisbury and Westbury which is an alternative to going via London.
I agree that having diesels running over electrified lines (Southampton to Brighton) is not the best idea but there are worse examples of this in the country and if GWR were to ever increase their services to Brighton then it may be possible in the future to order some new Tri-Mode trains for Brighton and Portsmouth services which could use overhead electrification around Bristol and Cardiff and third rail to Portsmouth and Brighton.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWR are introducing another fast(ish) service between Portsmouth and Southampton. So there must be a spare fast path between Cosham triangle and Southampton. It would be impossible to run another all stations stopping service on the Netley line though, there just isn’t room with the Southern and GWR services as well, which is why they are all flighted together, roughly in a 15/20 minute period, in both directions.

The way Southern balance the calls out between their stopping and fast services between Barnham and Havant was required to make the 5 tph timetable work in the first place, and it is supposed to strike a balance between short and longer distance origin and destination pairs. It’s a compromise service limited by the infrastructure, and no amount of wishing is going to produce a regular express service.