I disagree. The density is not the same precisely because numbers are an order of magnitude lower.
Agreed - and TPE need much longer trains ( and should have had them years ago) Northern need longer trains ( and should have had them years ago)
I would argue that the passenger experience on a two carriage train that is full and standing, is much the same as the passenger experience on a twelve carriage one that is full and standing. The overall magnitude of numbers makes little difference.
Some interesting ideas there - I especially like the idea of making extended platforms "the norm" (or at least ensuring the scope for them) when refurbishing a line - to make things much simpler when we do need to extend services.
Yes, this would very much be a good idea.
If you have a twelve coach 377 on every journey then people will know which carriage to board etc (and know that they can walk between units).
Without getting too hung up on the "random unit generator" trope (which I think does get a little over-egged by some on here), the wide variety of units, and the large number of units without gangway connections round here mean that passengers oop north don't have the same security over where to stand at a platform, which carriage to board etc.
If TOCs had a nice uniform fleet then passengers would be able to cope better - us enthusiasts take things forgranted but train travel can be an anxious experience for a lot of people - instead we are getting three types of stock on the Leeds - Manchester line (185s, 802s and loco hauled) to replace one type of stock (185), we have Northern ordering new DMUs without corridor connections, we have a messy combination of trains (many of which won't work together).
There's also the issue that portion working is fine on a regular/simple "metro" network (which much of the old Southern Region is). It'd be an unreliable mess if you tried to introduce it on the messy combination of hourly train services that we have in northern England though.
I think you overplay the "metro" like aspect of the old Southern Region. Is a clockface timetable at Leeds or York really anymore complicated than one at Haywards Heath or Ashford ? Both of the latter have differing destinations, different stopping patterns and double track routes. In terms of platforms to wait in, the Southern Region splitting points tend to have a lot of trains and limited platforming options.
Agreed - although there are a lot on here who expect the railway to be flexible enough to cope with every event that takes place (e.g. the thread about a Spice Girls concert a couple of months ago) and who think that the railway should have sufficient spare capacity to easily cope with the absolute busiest day of the year.
If you have capacity to cope with the rush hour into the cities, you also have more capacity to cope with evening concerts and xmas markets.
@DarloRich speaks the truth - I'm amazed at what some people in northern England will claim to be "overcrowded" (which might just mean "I had to sit next to a stranger and didn't get a double seat to myself" or "there was one bloke who chose to stand on a carriage with 75% of seats taken")... but spending time around London shows a network where people are accustomed to not always being able to physically fit on the first train to arrive. Whole different world down there.
Some lines in northern England are at capacity (the Airedale line being high up that list), but in many other cases busy services can still be extended with more carriages (unlike trains around London that are already over two hundred metres long).
To get a seat on my two carriage commuter train from Leeds of an evening, I have to get there fifteen minutes before departure. Five minutes before and it's standing room only. Is that overcrowded enough for you ?
You say that "busy services can still be extended". Great. Someone extend them please - but my route's the "back of the queue" Hallam line and I'm not at all convinced we're going to get an extra carriage by the time the stock changes have settled down, particularly when the 153's have ridden off into the sunset.
It may be heresy to some, but there are plenty of lines around here where rail is never going to be busy enough - we are stuck with various "Parliamentary" services and other quiet branches where heavy rail is too inflexible or the population density is too low. I've mentioned before that the Colne branch has an average passenger loading east of Burnley that could be accommodated by a minibus - but replacing all of the 142/144/153s in the Northern franchise means that the shortest trains round here will still be able to accommodate around a hundred and fifty people.
Look at how Light Rail is significantly more popular through Oldham than Heavy Rail was (because Light Rail has been able to properly serve central Oldham and central Rochdale, rather than dumping passengers on the edge of town because that was as close as the Victorians bothered to get).
"Busy enough" for what exactly ? Busy enough to suit some small Government fantasy of a railway without subsidy ?
The Colne end of the Colne - Blackpool line might be quieter, but those passengers can still get to a good variety of destinations with only one change.
