Are London Underground mice darker

[bluenoxid]

I like FOI because you can ask anything including those weird questions.

Transport for London says they’re naturally darker and nothing to do with genetics or conditions they live in.

FOI request detail

FOI request detail

tfl.gov.uk

Hello. I’m sorry to bother you for this question but I am not native to the area. I was wondering if there is information in regard to the color of the mice. Is it simply genetic markings or are they that dark due to the conditions/being dirty. If so, what in the underground system is causing it to keep them this dark? Thank you for your time. I promise this is a legitimate question.

Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 9 January 2025 asking for information about mice on our network.



Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of the Environmental Information Regulations (EIR) and our information access policy.



I can confirm that we hold the information you require. You specifically asked: I was wondering if there is information in regard to the color of the mice. Is it simply genetic markings or are they that dark due to the conditions/being dirty. If so, what in the underground system is causing it to keep them this dark?



The typical found across our network is ‘house mouse (mus domesticus)’ which is dark anyway and so the colour is not a direct result of the environment that they live in.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

About 30 years ago I remember watching a TV documentary about the Underground; I can't remember what it was called but I can remember them showing some mice running around and a member of staff quipped that the mice on the Northern Line have a black stripe on them...

 

[CarltonA]

I noticed back in the C and D Stock days that pigeons boarded the trains at stations between Paddington and Kensington. They would not be phased by the closing of the doors and would casually alight at a stop along the line. I wonder if they could distinguish between the stocks and if they would get caught out by a Wimbleware C Stock not going to South Ken. I don't think I'll approach TfL to see if they did any research.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes think its natural, the ones i've seen look the same as the ones i had in my house a few years ago, and i'm waaaaaaaay off the edge of the tube map!

 

[Thirteen]

I'm surprised those mice haven't mutated given the amount of junk food that's been eaten over the years.

 

[barringtoncem]

Not mice i recall reading that the Mosquitoes on the Underground are unable to breed with above ground ones

 

[Andrew1395]

Aren’t mice that live on the underground a distinct genetic type sub species from normal house mice. Someone must have done a PhD on it.

 

[philthetube]

Aren’t mice that live on the underground a distinct genetic type sub species from normal house mice. Someone must have done a PhD on it.

I am sure I heard that somewhere, someone commenting on how quickly evolution works.

 

[Russel]

Without wanting to sound like a killjoy, is answering questions like this really a good use of TFL's time?

 

[yorkie]

Without wanting to sound like a killjoy, is answering questions like this really a good use of TFL's time?

Technically no, but as a quick one-off question, it's going to take up very little time.

When passed onto the right person, it's going to be like a minute or two to respond; vastly less time-consuming than some of the more complicated but similarly frivolous questions they get asked by others, I am sure!

 

[43066]

Despite the FOI response, I find it hard to believe they aren’t a few shades darker than their above ground brethren - they must be caked in filth and brake dust!

 

[generalnerd]

I noticed back in the C and D Stock days that pigeons boarded the trains at stations between Paddington and Kensington. They would not be phased by the closing of the doors and would casually alight at a stop along the line. I wonder if they could distinguish between the stocks and if they would get caught out by a Wimbleware C Stock not going to South Ken. I don't think I'll approach TfL to see if they did any research.

Oh wow! I bet they got confused by the S Stock

 

[CarltonA]

Oh wow! I bet they got confused by the S Stock

Not being the brightest of creatures I expect they were confused when the doors opened and the outside world had changed. At least they are good at getting home again.

 

[baz962]

Despite the FOI response, I find it hard to believe they aren’t a few shades darker than their above ground brethren - they must be caked in filth and brake dust!

Usually a bit lighter due to getting less sunlight

 

[Tube driver]

You don’t mess with an Underground mouse. They carry flick knives and everything and will have your arm off given half a chance…

 

[43066]

Usually a bit lighter due to getting less sunlight

Haha there is that. I wonder if LU issue them with vitamin D pills, like a certain TOC does their drivers.

 

[baz962]

Haha there is that. I wonder if LU issue them with vitamin D pills, like a certain TOC does their drivers.

Weren't they vit C. Will have to check.

 

[43066]

Weren't they vit C. Will have to check.

I wasn’t sufficiently interested to check before binning the whole package. A “when the Samaritans are engaged, you can call this hotline” card, complete with phone number might have been more appropriate.

Good grief. Am I turning into a cynical old train driver who moans a lot? I bet the mice on the tube complain a lot less than I do…

 

[baz962]

I wasn’t sufficiently interested to check before binning the whole package. A “when the Samaritans are engaged, you can call this hotline” card with a phone number might have been more appropriate.

Good grief. Am I turning into a cynical old train driver who moans a lot? I bet the mice on the tube complain less than I do…

When aren't you moaning. The mess room has been quiet without you

 

[Sunil_P]

Tube Mice intro song:

 

[Egg Centric]

I wasn’t sufficiently interested to check before binning the whole package. A “when the Samaritans are engaged, you can call this hotline” card, complete with phone number might have been more appropriate.

Good grief. Am I turning into a cynical old train driver who moans a lot? I bet the mice on the tube complain a lot less than I do…

What is this? Was a TOC issuing vitamin D because drivers were underground a lot or something?

 

[43066]

What is this? Was a TOC issuing vitamin D because drivers were underground a lot or something?

Late shifts are mostly spent in the dark at this time of year - so it was a sop to that.

 

[GatwickDepress]

The mice aren't as dangerous as the tube mares, mind. I'm sure TfL use something more modern than hammers these days.

 

[317 forever]

I thought Underground mice would be lighter. After all, they are extremely unlikely to be able to get a suntan

 

[Mikey C]

The mice aren't as dangerous as the tube mares, mind. I'm sure TfL use something more modern than hammers these days.

I'd forgotten about that. It's a clear TfL cover up that Tim Dunn has never met any tube horses on his TV programmes

 

[Recessio]

Without wanting to sound like a killjoy, is answering questions like this really a good use of TFL's time?

No, having a quick scan of submitted FoIs it looks like a good proportion of them would be better placed into Customer Services or even Google. I doubt this one would take much time to answer, but I believe under the FoI law repeated and/or vexatious requests can be rejected if it's actually going to start causing problems to the information holder to have to answer them.

 

[Deepgreen]

Despite the FOI response, I find it hard to believe they aren’t a few shades darker than their above ground brethren - they must be caked in filth and brake dust!

Nowhere near as much brake dust around these days...

 

[Robert Ambler]

No, having a quick scan of submitted FoIs it looks like a good proportion of them would be better placed into Customer Services or even Google. I doubt this one would take much time to answer, but I believe under the FoI law repeated and/or vexatious requests can be rejected if it's actually going to start causing problems to the information holder to have to answer them.

You are correct - repeated or vexatious requests can be refused as can those where to compile the information would involve excessive staff time or costs. Requests can also be refused if they are likely to involve disclosing commercially sensitive information or personal details. You do have to advise the requestor if you are not answering their request and tell them why (and they can appeal to the information commissioner).

Having previously had a role in which I had to respond to FOI requests I would think the one on mice would have made a welcome change. In my experience most requests are from journalists where they are getting you to do their research for them or from commercial organisations seeking information so they can decide if it is worth their while bidding or pitching for work.