Are LNERs timetable plans still going ahead?

[dk1]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #11 originally in this thread.

Let’s see what the paths are like. Squeezing them in will not have been easy, and I’d be very surprised if it was quicker than the LNER ‘faster’ service each hour.

Hasn't LNER got plans (or had plans) for a faster service still (Newcastle only) every other hour?

 

[Bald Rick]

Hasn't LNER got plans (or had plans) for a faster service still (Newcastle only) every other hour?

I don’t know. But can’t see that happening any time soon.

 

[dk1]

I don’t know. But can’t see that happening any time soon.

Me neither but they have stated they want to continue the plans originally set out by VTEC. In the other hour it was a 3rd service to Leeds.

 

[Halish Railway]

Hasn't LNER got plans (or had plans) for a faster service still (Newcastle only) every other hour?

Yes. Below is this and what else LNER proposes.

 

[dk1]

Yes. Below is this and what else LNER proposes.

View attachment 89045

Thank you.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes. Below is this and what else LNER proposes.

View attachment 89045

That was produced before the pandemic, no? Things have changed.

 

[DarloRich]

That was produced before the pandemic, no? Things have changed.

Agreed - LNER ain't going to the Boro anytime soon! Also Thornaby with a London service: ROFL as the kids say

 

[swt_passenger]

Agreed - LNER ain't going to the Boro anytime soon! Also Thornaby with a London service: ROFL as the kids say

Then they won’t need the stock they’re supposed to already have ordered for it?

 

[Halish Railway]

Agreed - LNER ain't going to the Boro anytime soon! Also Thornaby with a London service: ROFL as the kids say

Whats stopping them from running a 5 carriage 800? I can understand why they wouldn't want to send a full 9/10 carriage train due to how short the platforms and sidings are at Middlesborough, however, a 5 carriage can be full once it departs Peterborough, even if 80% of demand returns.

 

[dk1]

That was produced before the pandemic, no? Things have changed.

It has but LNER have stated they wish to continue with the proposals hence the invitation to tender for another 10 trains.

 

[Ianno87]

Whats stopping them from running a 5 carriage 800? I can understand why they wouldn't want to send a full 9/10 carriage train due to how short the platforms and sidings are at Middlesborough, however, a 5 carriage can be full once it departs Peterborough, even if 80% of demand returns.

General lack of demand need for the service at all to Middlesbrough is the barrier. Hardly a priority with passenger numbers and revenue through the floor.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2021 ==

It has but LNER have stated they wish to continue with the proposals hence the invitation to tender for another 10 trains.

Presumably so that they're ready when demand does return.

 

[Bald Rick]

It has but LNER have stated they wish to continue with the proposals hence the invitation to tender for another 10 trains.

There hasn’t been an invitation to tender though, and I’ll have a tenner there won’t be until the ECML capacity review has concluded. It would seem foolish to buy new trains anytime before there is much more clarity on what level of demand is likely to return to the network.

 

[dk1]

There hasn’t been an invitation to tender though, and I’ll have a tenner there won’t be until the ECML capacity review has concluded. It would seem foolish to buy new trains anytime before there is much more clarity on what level of demand is likely to return to the network.

Reading MR magazine is quite funny. It mentions the tendering just to keep everything sweet but implies that Hitachi would be guaranteed to get it anyway. Got to agree.

 

[Class 170101]

Still planned for Dec 2021 Timetable but whether that happens is another matter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2021 ==

Whats stopping them from running a 5 carriage 800? I can understand why they wouldn't want to send a full 9/10 carriage train due to how short the platforms and sidings are at Middlesborough, however, a 5 carriage can be full once it departs Peterborough, even if 80% of demand returns.

General lack of demand need for the service at all to Middlesbrough is the barrier. Hardly a priority with passenger numbers and revenue through the floor.

I'm surprised that a ten car wasn't offered every two hours with a 5 car to Middlesbrough and 5 to Scarborough splitting at York. a 5 car on the core ECML seems like a waste of a path to be frank and honest.

 

[Bald Rick]

Still planned for Dec 2021 Timetable but whether that happens is another matter.

It isn’t. The ECML recast has been deferred to May 22. And I suspect that may even be in doubt.

 

[Class 170101]

It isn’t. The ECML recast has been deferred to May 22. And I suspect that may even be in doubt.

Is that actually official? Publicly?

 

[yorkie]

Is that actually official? Publicly?

It doesn't need to be; if @Bald Rick says it, it will be true

 

[43074]

Is that actually official? Publicly?

I posted this link in the thread about SE and Maidstone the other day which quotes a May 2022 recast for the ECML, so that is confirmation of that.

I'm sure it will slip further though, as I am pretty sure LNER's aspirations will be different to the outcomes of the Andrew Haines review into ECML capacity and services which is ongoing at the moment.

 

[JRT]

Just wondering about 5-car trains and 10-car trains. I’ll post in the other thread if needs be.

Harrogate 5 + Bradford Forster Square 5 combined at Leeds (every two hours).

Skipton 5 + Huddersfield 5 combined at Leeds (1 per day, already planned for evening return)

 

[Bald Rick]

Is that actually official? Publicly?

Yes!

 

[Class 170101]

Just wondering about 5-car trains and 10-car trains. I’ll post in the other thread if needs be.

Harrogate 5 + Bradford Forster Square 5 combined at Leeds (every two hours).

Skipton 5 + Huddersfield 5 combined at Leeds (1 per day, already planned for evening return)

Doesn't look like it see below quoted from Post 4 above.

View attachment 89045

 

[YorksLad12]

Just wondering about 5-car trains and 10-car trains. I’ll post in the other thread if needs be.

Harrogate 5 + Bradford Forster Square 5 combined at Leeds (every two hours).

Skipton 5 + Huddersfield 5 combined at Leeds (1 per day, already planned for evening return)

Harrogate is every two hours, not via the Wakefield route (calling at Horsforth, so probably a half-set after Leeds).
Leeds is every half-hour, plus the Harrogate service every two hours (so 3tp2h).
Bradford FS is every two hours, also calling at Shipley (so I guess that would be a half-set after Leeds).

Evening extensions as now or as planned to Harrogate, Bradford FS, Skipton and Huddersfield. I think there's 12 variations of stopping service across the seven groups in the chart, excluding the peak extensions.

 

[Halish Railway]

Harrogate is every two hours, not via the Wakefield route (calling at Horsforth, so probably a half-set after Leeds).
Leeds is every half-hour, plus the Harrogate service every two hours (so 3tp2h).
Bradford FS is every two hours, also calling at Shipley (so I guess that would be a half-set after Leeds).

Evening extensions as now or as planned to Harrogate, Bradford FS, Skipton and Huddersfield. I think there's 12 variations of stopping service across the seven groups in the chart, excluding the peak extensions.

I doubt that they would bother going through the process of decoupling trains at Leeds - Currently a 9/10 carriage train serves those destinations. Platform 3 at Shipley has been extended to fit a 10 carriage Azuma and long HSTs and Azumas have been calling at Horsforth for years.

 

[800001]

I doubt that they would bother going through the process of decoupling trains at Leeds - Currently a 9/10 carriage train serves those destinations. Platform 3 at Leeds has been extended to fit a 10 carriage Azuma and long HSTs and Azumas have been calling at Horsforth for years.

But a 10 car can't call at Horsforth in 1 direction

 

[YorksLad12]

I doubt that they would bother going through the process of decoupling trains at Leeds - Currently a 9/10 carriage train serves those destinations. Platform 3 at Leeds has been extended to fit a 10 carriage Azuma and long HSTs and Azumas have been calling at Horsforth for years.

According to December's Sectional Appendix pdf, P3 at Leeds is 133m. Barely long enough for a 5-car unit, if true. I did once get on a 10-car set from London in which only half the set was going forward to Skipton, but it was a long time ago.

But a 10 car can't call at Horsforth in 1 direction

According to December's Sectional Appendix pdf, Horsforth's platforms are 110m Down, 115m Up. A 10-car Azuma (260m) can't call in either direction without shuffling all the passengers to one end, if true.

 

[800001]

According to December's Sectional Appendix pdf, P3 at Leeds is 133m. Barely long enough for a 5-car unit, if true. I did once get on a 10-car set from London in which only half the set was going forward to Skipton, but it was a long time ago.


According to December's Sectional Appendix pdf, Horsforth's platforms are 110m Down, 115m Up. A 10-car Azuma (260m) can't call in either direction without shuffling all the passengers to one end, if true.

Can't call, has been a few times where a 10 car has been scheduled and they have had to issue a fail to call.

 

[Halish Railway]

According to December's Sectional Appendix pdf, P3 at Leeds is 133m. Barely long enough for a 5-car unit, if true. I did once get on a 10-car set from London in which only half the set was going forward to Skipton, but it was a long time ago.

Yes, my mistake I meant Shipley. I’ve corrected it now.

 

[YorksLad12]

Yes, my mistake I meant Shipley. I’ve corrected it now.

You had me worried I'd missed something major happening outside my window

 

[JRT]

According to December's Sectional Appendix pdf, P3 at Leeds is 133m. Barely long enough for a 5-car unit, if true. I did once get on a 10-car set from London in which only half the set was going forward to Skipton, but it was a long time ago.


According to December's Sectional Appendix pdf, Horsforth's platforms are 110m Down, 115m Up. A 10-car Azuma (260m) can't call in either direction without shuffling all the passengers to one end, if tru

You had me worried I'd missed something major happening outside my window

Shipley platform 1 from Skipton they used selective door opening last time I was there.
They don't stop at platform 2 on the return to Skipton.

 

[Aictos]

So the long running London to Lincoln service loses it's Peterborough stop? Definitely a downgrade to the service there!