Are head codes ever visible

[D6130]

Indeed. The headcode is for Redhill- London Bridge via Crystal Palace, or Cannon Street to the North Kent via Greenwich line, or the Brentford roundabout, or Portsmouth to Salisbury, althiough i don't think 415/4s ever ran on the south Western, (and certainly not on the unelectrified Portsmouth salisbury route!)

BIt looks like a double sided platform (doors can open both sides) but it doesn't look like Norwood Junction (which has a subway, not a footbridge)

It's the Royal Mail dock at the North end of Redhill station on the down side. I would guess that the unit is working a Christmas mail/parcels extra to London Bridge with its seat cushions turned over.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It's the Royal Mail dock at the North end of Redhill station on the down side. I would guess that the unit is working a Christmas mail/parcels extra to London Bridge with its seat cushions turned over.

I thought it had the look of Redhill about it, and of couerse the headcode fitted. The red barrow suggested somewhere with Royal mail services too. But it didn't occor to me it was not in passnger service.

 

[astronautjaye]

Indeed they do, although they are sometimes incorrect and show the previous headcode.

I had to comment to say how the headcodes shown aren't incorrect. One side will show the previous non ECS running headcode and the other the current one, and it has always been like that.

 

[Chorley1980]

Not convinced. This was 390155 on 1A21, Sunday 15-Sep-24

View attachment 192635

And this is RTT Sun 02-Nov-25

View attachment 192636

Depends what you're calling a headcode I suppose.

The RSID shows until the driver sets the cab up and logs into the TMS when the display will change to show the services headcode.

It’s a good sign for Platform staff at originating stations that the driver is in the cab

 

[chrisjo]

The RSID shows until the driver sets the cab up and logs into the TMS when the display will change to show the services headcode.

Interesting. The photo I posted was a Preston to Euston service, at Preston. Photo time 1031, scheduled to depart 1057.

I shall need to pay more attention next time I am in WCML Avanti territory.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Some particular guards like to manually input old southern headcodes on Desiros:

 

[XCTurbostar]

They are technically visible on Eurostar if you replace the second number of the service number for: 1 to I and 0 to O. E.g. Door displays on Class 374s show 9043 which is headcode 9O43.

Personally, I’m a big believer in showing them publicly more even on platform displays. It would certainly help passengers to explain which train they’re trying to catch - “Is 2N02 on time?” “BTP, there’s a problem on 1A32” “I’m catching 1P92 to work today”

 

[zwk500]

They are technically visible on Eurostar if you replace the second number of the service number for: 1 to I and 0 to O. E.g. Door displays on Class 374s show 9043 which is headcode 9O43.

Personally, I’m a big believer in showing them publicly more even on platform displays. It would certainly help passengers to explain which train they’re trying to catch - “Is 2N02 on time?” “BTP, there’s a problem on 1A32” “I’m catching 1P92 to work today”

The issue with that, as many people have said, is that 1A32 today could mean the 1043 Alton-Waterloo, the 1132 Chester-Euston, the 1830 Bristol Temple Meads-Paddington, or the 1239 Merthyr Tydfil-Aberdare.

I'm in favour of displaying train numbers for IC/Regional Trains, but headcodes are not the right tool for this purpose - that's the RSID. For more local trains I'd prefer a more continental style of route numbers, although London Overground's route names are a step in the right direction.

 

[jfollows]

They were also shown in the national rail timetable briefly, maybe in the first year under new ownership, but have been removed now.

 

[D6130]

I would prefer a more continental style of train identification for all services. The present numeric-alphabetic-numeric-numeric train numbering system - first introduced in the early 1960s - is hopelessly archaic and very confusing for the travelling public....not to mention requiring excessive duplication. Far better IMHO to have an all-purpose, all- numeric train identification system for both operating and commercial requirements.

Long-distance 'Inter-City'-type services would by numbered 1-999 (preceded by the requisite number of zeros for signallers' identification purposes); longer distance express and regional services 1000-9999; local stopping services 10000-99999 and Metro-type services 100000-999999. Down trains would have I/ds ending in odd numbers and Up trains in even numbers.....while trains which reverse en route would change numbers en-route, as they do in France

These numbers would be shown in both working and public timetables....and shown on both the inside and outside of the train, as well as on tickets and seat reservations where appropriate and on barrier and station indicators. Regular passengers would soon learn to identify their trains, but occasional travellers would be able to identify theirs more easily than now.

 

[zwk500]

I would prefer a more continental style of train identification for all services. The present numeric- alphabetic-numeric-numeric train numbering system - first introduced in the early 1960s - is hopelessly archaic and very confusing for the travelling public....not to mention requiring excessive duplication. Far better IMHO to have an all-purpose, all- numeric train identification system for both operating and commercial requirements.

Is it not better to retain an Operator/Branding code? E.g. HX001-090 is more distinct than 34200-34290.

Long-distance 'Inter-City'-type services would by numbered 1-999 (preceded by the requisite number of zeros for signallers' identification purposes); longer distance express and regional services 1000-9999; local stopping services 10000-99999 and Metro-type services 100000-999999. Down trains would have I/ds ending in odd numbers and Up trains in even numbers.....while trains which reverse en route would change numbers en-route, as they do in France

I would not change numbers, that would make it far too confusing for passengers. 'Ah we've got to change trains at Bristol, look it's a different train number'. Trains would take a predominant direction either based on distance in one direction or another or based on overall O-D flow. But remember most (all?) panels can't show more than 4 characters as it stands.

I also think Metro and commuter services do not need specific service identifiers, only the general 'line' information. The individual service identifiers are only needed for long-distance traffic where significant delays could lead to trains being out of sequence, or where reservations and similar services are available. E.g. London Overground would run routes W1/W2/W3/W4 on the Windrush Line with the same 'header' for each train on the O-D pair, but Avanti would have each IC10xx being a separate service between Euston and Manchester.

 

[AC47461]

I'm pretty sure the GA 720s show the 4 character headcode in their window screens.

 

[FGW_DID]

The present numeric-alphabetic-numeric-numeric train numbering system - first introduced in the early 1960s - is hopelessly archaic and very confusing for the travelling public..

But it's not meant for the travelling public, its for the operational staff.

Use what ever system you want for the public but headcodes work just fine for us.

 

[D6130]

But it's not meant for the travelling public, its for the operational staff.

Use what ever system you want for the public but headcodes work just fine for us.

Yes, as a retired driver myself, I realise that....but my point is that in the long term it would be far more sensible to have a common train numbering system for both passengers and staff, as used by every rail system in Europe. I'm talking very long term....because the necessary modifications to signalling control systems would not be cheap.

 

[WAB]

Yes, as a retired driver myself, I realise that....but my point is that in the long term it would be far more sensible to have a common train numbering system for both passengers and staff, as used by every rail system in Europe. I'm talking very long term....because the necessary modifications to signalling control systems would not be cheap.

The headcode is far easier to interpret than a solely numerical format.

 

[MrJeeves]

This was 390155 on 1A21, Sunday 15-Sep-24

Agreed - I’ve only ever seen RSIDs, as above, on the Pendolino.

This was 9M59 on 21 May 2023:



And this was 9M60 on 21 Nov 2024:



And, you guessed it, 1B49 on 7 Feb this year:



I wonder if the TM can choose what it says, and some input the signalling headcode and others input the RSID.

 

[Falcon1200]

I alighted from 1S58 1130 ex Euston at Glasgow Central on Monday and displayed on the screens was.... 1S58!

 

[zwk500]

I wonder if the TM can choose what it says, and some input the signalling headcode and others input the RSID.

I'm fairly sure it's driven from the 'headcode' field (which is separate from the 'Train ID' field) because of the 'VT1B49' format, so maybe it takes the headcode if populated and the RSID if not?

 

[cool110]

I wonder if the TM can choose what it says, and some input the signalling headcode and others input the RSID.

...so maybe it takes the headcode if populated and the RSID if not?

As said earlier it shows the RSID before the driver has set the cab up, then the headcode afterwards

 

[MrJeeves]

As said earlier it shows the RSID before the driver has set the cab up, then the headcode afterwards

Ah, thanks, I had missed that.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Interesting, I wonder why Bombardier Voyagers aren’t the same?