Are guards salaries catching drivers ?

[notadriver]

Whilst Mcnulty would like to remove guards from trains, it seems the role is becoming more important and well paid. For example TPE offered its conductors 5% and it's drivers 2.2% whilst at another TOC drivers are only getting £1k a year increase in return for a gradual reduction in hours to 35 (Sundays are inside) while it's guards got more than a 5% rise are already on a 35 hour week and Sundays are outside. Is there a trend here?

 

[185]

Never catch drivers. That won't happen.

You can get near a drivers (basic) salary if your work you ******** off.



*trousers

 

[CarterUSM]

Never catch drivers. That won't happen.

You can get near a drivers (basic) salary if your work you ******** off.



*trousers

Yep, with commission, Sundays, and a bit of overtime, though not too much, 30-32 grand gross is no sweat. Our pay deals usually match the drivers in percentage rate, though we agreed a 4 year deal with 3% or RPI for the next 3 years whereas the drivers took a 2 year deal, so depending on RPI in 2013 and 2014 it might be different.

 

[RJ]

There's quite some way to go in some cases. Virgin TMs get £36k whilst the drivers are on £50k. For LM, it's £25k vs £41k.

For LO, think it's £32k vs £35k. And Southern, £25k vs £30k, that's going by the recent job advertisements.

 

[Latecomer]

There's quite some way to go in some cases. Virgin TMs get £36k whilst the drivers are on £50k. For LM, it's £25k vs £41k.

For LO, think it's £32k vs £35k. And Southern, £25k vs £30k, that's going by the recent job advertisements.

I think the last two TOC's you mention that is the one year qualified rate for drivers. LO after 1 further year is 46.5k and I think Southern is about 2k less than that. Adverts very rarely mention the ultimate salary which is achieved 20 months in due to the already excessive number of applicants who simply apply because of the £ signs.

 

[spacehopper]

Best job is at the back, but the money is at the front.

In the 7 years I've been a guard I'm not earning much more a month then when I first started.

While drivers have sold lot of DRI T&C in return for a much higher salary- us guards have retained most of CRI. See what happens with the latest harmonisation proposals- will they take the money or keep conditions?

More to life then money but most of us are on or about UK average wage anyway so we see less mercenary types in the grade.

 

[somthingnew]

Not a chance ever!!

A guard is now a non skilled job and although it holds safety critical responsibilities, these are now in this day and age very rarely and in most cases never used

How long is a guards training? 3 weeks? A drivers a year?

i would imagine, especially in scotland that the grade will infact be phased out over time and replaced with there version of train manager or indeed glorified TE

 

[gazza8]

Best job is at the back, but the money is at the front.

In the 7 years I've been a guard I'm not earning much more a month then when I first started.

While drivers have sold lot of DRI T&C in return for a much higher salary- us guards have retained most of CRI. See what happens with the latest harmonisation proposals- will they take the money or keep conditions?

More to life then money but most of us are on or about UK average wage anyway so we see less mercenary types in the grade.

How can you say that when youve never been up the front?

Guards will never catch drivers!

Infact the term guard should not even be used now

 

[175001]

It's Guard in the rule book, so I'm a guard

 

[notadriver]

Why not 'guard'? I think it sounds better than conductor ?

 

[gazza8]

The term guard was taken when the grade was used as a purely operational role and like many railway things has stuck.

now the conductor is just a ticket examiner that operates doors and has a scwid card!

and with the implementation nation wide of GSMR then the role will become unnecessary

** speaking about scotrail here

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The term guard was taken when the grade was used as a purely operational role and like many railway things has stuck.

now the conductor is just a ticket examiner that operates doors and has a scwid card!

and with the implementation nation wide of GSMR then the role will become unnecessary

** speaking about scotrail here

Hate to see you hurt in an incident and requiring the guards help, you have either have a very low opinion of guards or you haven't read the rule book.... Or both!

 

[hiall]

The best job is at the front. Most secure too. And don't have to speak to public. Magic

 

[gazza8]

Hate to see you hurt in an incident and requiring the guards help, you have either have a very low opinion of guards or you haven't read the rule book.... Or both!

lol ive read the rule book for years and am fully ware of what the conductor is expected to do, but its no where near as skilled as it once was, the fact replacement were trained during strike action in 4 days says it all!

The fact people think there salary is justified to be on par with a driver is laughable

 

[Talbot]

Hate to see you hurt in an incident and requiring the guards help, you have either have a very low opinion of guards or you haven't read the rule book.... Or both!

Wee bit harsh Northern, the O.P. might just be looking at what could come about, he's not too far off the mark when you see how fast systems and mechanisms change due to ongoing technology.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Guards/conductor/ticket people/inspectors/whatever the frig you want to call them have to deal with what can be quite heated situations, such as in Scotland the other week with the big guy launching a chav off a Perth train at Linlithgow when he was cheeking the conductor.

 

[gazza8]

Guards/conductor/ticket people/inspectors/whatever the frig you want to call them have to deal with what can be quite heated situations, such as in Scotland the other week with the big guy launching a chav off a Perth train at Linlithgow when he was cheeking the conductor.

TEs especially here at Dalmuir deal with that type of situation on a daily basis and have no power over holding a train up etc

 

[175001]

Hate to see you hurt in an incident and requiring the guards help, you have either have a very low opinion of guards or you haven't read the rule book.... Or both!

Well said!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Wee bit harsh Northern, the O.P. might just be looking at what could come about, he's not too far off the mark when you see how fast systems and mechanisms change due to ongoing technology.

I work for Northern we don't have technology lol, seriously tho the rule book I sign has everything from shunting, to dangerous goods to the usual emergency protection etc etc and still takes a full day ( drivers at least here take 2) on top of our rulebook we have traction routes and finally tickets, admittedly some things have gone by the wayside over the years but that can also be said for drivers, I am not a conductor! I am a Guard!

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

TEs especially here at Dalmuir deal with that type of situation on a daily basis and have no power over holding a train up etc

Here the train does not move (in passenger service) until I say its safe to do so and even thoo it can frustrate our control they will back you up

 

[175001]

I'm delighted to say that the relationship between Guards and Drivers at my depot is fantastic, unlike Gazza's depot. Shame, I thought the railway was one big family, seems I was wrong!

 

[spacehopper]

The term guard was taken when the grade was used as a purely operational role and like many railway things has stuck.

now the conductor is just a ticket examiner that operates doors and has a scwid card!

and with the implementation nation wide of GSMR then the role will become unnecessary

** speaking about scotrail here

Obviously swallowed too much First ScotRail / SNP propaganda circa January 2010. :roll:

The railway is more than just drivers..... working on the railway I can say having talked to and known those that move from the back to the front say what I said about the best job being at the back. Being a guard is a great job mate! Really surprises me reading post on this forum over last few weeks saying it's an entry level non glamorous role. But then again spotters love to kick our grade. How many weeks can this forum go with out an anti guard thread- not very long. It raises its head so very often.

I had 2 days training on tickets when I first started out. I've yet to be assessed bi-annually or be constantly monitored, sign for retail instructions every week. Think I've still got a very focused operational role as a guard. Long may it continue, no mirror, no cctv, no GSMR, no axle counters or ROC can replace the knowledge, usefulness, safety of having a guard on the train. If you want a race to the bottom then even your ticket examiner won't last on SPT DOO network.

Who would you prefer to provide a safe lawful society a PCSO or a PC?

 

[martin2345uk]

Best job is at the back, but the money is at the front.

In the 7 years I've been a guard I'm not earning much more a month then when I first started.

While drivers have sold lot of DRI T&C in return for a much higher salary- us guards have retained most of CRI. See what happens with the latest harmonisation proposals- will they take the money or keep conditions?
.

Not up on my railway abbreviations yet... What's DRI T&C and CRI?

 

[gazza8]

I work for Northern we don't have technology lol, seriously tho the rule book I sign has everything from shunting, to dangerous goods to the usual emergency protection etc etc and still takes a full day ( drivers at least here take 2) on top of our rulebook we have traction routes and finally tickets, admittedly some things have gone by the wayside over the years but that can also be said for drivers, I am not a conductor! I am a Guard!


RSSB producer of the rule book state the name guard in its publications as its a generic term because there are many variations on it eg Conductor, Senior Conductor, Train Manager plus those who are actually Train Guards.

No where in the full oganisation of Northern Rail is there a guard employed, they dont employ them, only Conductors so YOU ARE A CONDUCTOR!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm delighted to say that the relationship between Guards and Drivers at my depot is fantastic, unlike Gazza's depot. Shame, I thought the railway was one big family, seems I was wrong!

Dont work with Conductors now moved from Queen St, work DOO

 

[GB]

What does it matter what they are called? You will still be relying on them when the **** hits the fan.

 

[gazza8]

Obviously swallowed too much First ScotRail / SNP propaganda circa January 2010. :roll:

The railway is more than just drivers..... working on the railway I can say having talked to and known those that move from the back to the front say what I said about the best job being at the back. Being a guard is a great job mate! Really surprises me reading post on this forum over last few weeks saying it's an entry level non glamorous role. But then again spotters love to kick our grade. How many weeks can this forum go with out an anti guard thread- not very long. It raises its head so very often.

I had 2 days training on tickets when I first started out. I've yet to be assessed bi-annually or be constantly monitored, sign for retail instructions every week. Think I've still got a very focused operational role as a guard. Long may it continue, no mirror, no cctv, no GSMR, no axle counters or ROC can replace the knowledge, usefulness, safety of having a guard on the train. If you want a race to the bottom then even your ticket examiner won't last on SPT DOO network.

Who would you prefer to provide a safe lawful society a PCSO or a PC?

No not only drivers in the railway lol But the only people with the power to stop it, im not getting on a high horse saying drivers are the bee al and end all, im trying to state that there is no way a conductor could even think about being on par with a driver money wise

 

[Talbot]

Obviously swallowed too much First ScotRail / SNP propaganda circa January 2010. :roll:

The railway is more than just drivers..... working on the railway I can say having talked to and known those that move from the back to the front say what I said about the best job being at the back. Being a guard is a great job mate! Really surprises me reading post on this forum over last few weeks saying it's an entry level non glamorous role. But then again spotters love to kick our grade. How many weeks can this forum go with out an anti guard thread- not very long. It raises its head so very often.

I had 2 days training on tickets when I first started out. I've yet to be assessed bi-annually or be constantly monitored, sign for retail instructions every week. Think I've still got a very focused operational role as a guard. Long may it continue, no mirror, no cctv, no GSMR, no axle counters or ROC can replace the knowledge, usefulness, safety of having a guard on the train. If you want a race to the bottom then even your ticket examiner won't last on SPT DOO network.

Who would you prefer to provide a safe lawful society a PCSO or a PC?

Get a grip here, the post is about guards and drivers is it not ?.
So why have the audacity to envagle T.E.s. Wtf have they to do with this thread ?. Take it on the chin buddy, times are changing fast, and it's only human nature for some folks not to agree with change, but please don't attempt to patronise T.E.s, they probably face more challenging situations than you do, because they are out there working their trains at all times.

 

[spacehopper]

Not wanting this thread to go flame crazy-

notadriver- who often posts about driver/guard stuff don't know his background but I think he works for South Eastern may have wrongly thought our guards wages were catching up with drivers. As OP pointed out this would have been training salaries.

We all have a view about what the "best" job is. I've never been prime minister but I know I wouldn't enjoy it.

As for debate about what you want to call us- If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. More important debates to be had.

I am very firmly of the view that the majority of us who work on the railway can see past the grade and the wage. Does sadden me when grades take a pop at each other.

Talbot- the Dalmuir TE posts were saying we have limited operational role and the only difference between me and him is we do the doors and have a SCWID card. Other guards have then posted and defended our role.

I have solidarity with all my fellow railway family- nobody want's to be out of a job and I think our grade has more than changed and progressed over the years. I work with TE grade on an almost daily basis and more often then not let them sell as many tickets as they want. They help us out just like a guard helps a driver out. More they take in sales the harder it is to justify there removal. We need them on our trains and they are a godsend. Many in TE grade go on to become guards- a chance of progression they won't get on a DOO wide system. Although talbot- it could be said a guard faces more challenging situations than a TE simply because of the nature of our job. I know on SPT DOO services you should get a TE on late night services but at my depot the latest you will see a TE is at 10 o'clock in the morning.

Spotters, staff- everyone should pull together to protect our railways.

 

[Talbot]

Not wanting this thread to go flame crazy-

notadriver- who often posts about driver/guard stuff don't know his background but I think he works for South Eastern may have wrongly thought our guards wages were catching up with drivers. As OP pointed out this would have been training salaries.

We all have a view about what the "best" job is. I've never been prime minister but I know I wouldn't enjoy it.

As for debate about what you want to call us- If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. More important debates to be had.

I am very firmly of the view that the majority of us who work on the railway can see past the grade and the wage. Does sadden me when grades take a pop at each other.

Talbot- the Dalmuir TE posts were saying we have limited operational role and the only difference between me and him is we do the doors and have a SCWID card. Other guards have then posted and defended our role.

I have solidarity with all my fellow railway family- nobody want's to be out of a job and I think our grade has more than changed and progressed over the years. I work with TE grade on an almost daily basis and more often then not let them sell as many tickets as they want. They help us out just like a guard helps a driver out. More they take in sales the harder it is to justify there removal. We need them on our trains and they are a godsend. Many in TE grade go on to become guards- a chance of progression they won't get on a DOO wide system. Although talbot- it could be said a guard faces more challenging situations than a TE simply because of the nature of our job. I know on SPT DOO services you should get a TE on late night services but at my depot the latest you will see a TE is at 10 o'clock in the morning.

Spotters, staff- everyone should pull together to protect our railways.

Solidarity ! is it there within the infrastructure of a railway environment ?.
Thanks for the reply, take your last post differently now, good stuff.
Been in previous employment where everyone had mutual respect for each other, irrespective of grade or job title, we were all in the same boat so to speak, a dying breed apparently.

 

[spacehopper]

It's okay mate- just worked out your a TE for ScotRail!

I know that morale at FSR took a big nosedive after the events of January 2010. Being a TE for FSR I know what you have to put up with all that SQUIRE stuff and Monty and his "underlaying" management at the helm. Having worked late trains out of Central and trains stopping at traditionally DOO stations in Strathcylde I know the sort of clientele you lads on DOO trains have to deal with. The "i don't have a ticket and my friend stanley says I won't be buying one" neds.

Solidarity does still exist in some parts of the railway! You just have to look a bit harder! Untied we stand, divided we fall.

Got enough of our fight on hands with management, government, media and public perception to battle against. Most people would rather have a visible staff presence on trains and on stations. All grades do a valuable job and once we've gone we won't be coming back. Much to the determent of the travelling public.

 

[notadriver]

@Spacehopper
I don't work for Southeastern but I have friends that do. I'm a coach driver. This was never meant to be a thread about people bashing each others jobs. As mentioned in the first place Mcnulty said we should get rid of the train guard and how wrong he is.

Guards play a more valuable role than ever on today's railway and this seems to be borne out by the fact their pay rises and some t&cs are better than drivers in some cases.