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Are GTR finished?
- Thread starter southernyoshi
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Haywards Heath has four platforms so just leave one platform blocked until someone can move it. Obviously that's not possible.
However I did see a message online the other day saying that due to staff shortages the train to Littlehampton would be 12 coaches instead of 8. So the cancelled stock for Eastbourne became part of the Littlehampton service instead.
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This is GTR. This is the company that somehow has ended up with the largest franchise in the UK. Hundreds of thousands rely on them every day.
And they couldn't give any less of a f***.
I pity anyone trying to catch a train to/from one of the villages tomorrow afternoon.
It's getting beyond a joke now. They've been shouting about the largest ever driver recruitment programme since the franchise started almost two years ago but we've yet to see any evidence of it.
Well, they might be telling the truth but there's more to running trains than just recruiting new drivers.
It would be like Tesco buying in millions of extra ice creams on the hottest day of the year, but then deciding to keep the stores closed.
(Is that a supermarket analogy that works?!)
It would be like Tesco buying in millions of extra ice creams on the hottest day of the year, but then deciding to keep the stores closed.
(Is that a supermarket analogy that works?!)
WatcherZero
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Cant remember if I mentioned it but last week the FT was recommending buying Go-Ahead shares because the fall in the stock price meant that the company was drastically under valued, less than the profit they would make at a 1.5% margin purely on the GTR contract. The main threat was that if there was a brexit their bus operations would be severely hit from increased costs as they wernt as insulated as the other bus companies.
As has been said before, Sunday's rely on goodwill from drivers willing to do overtime / RDW. With there being essentially no goodwill anywhere on the GTR network (especially none on GN from any grades) all areas are suffering from staff shortages, it's just Sunday's and a lack of drivers is considerably more noticeable to the public because of the huge amount of cancellations caused.
Stations being unmanned or staffed by agency, or gate lines / ticket offices not being manned at certain stations are far less likely to be noticed on such a scale, but it's happening across the route daily and I suspect is only going to get worse.
Morale is currently rock bottom, and has been for quite some time now. I didn't think it could get worse but yet it keeps sinking. With the current top level management and their attitude towards staff I can't see any change for the better happening any time soon.
Stations being unmanned or staffed by agency, or gate lines / ticket offices not being manned at certain stations are far less likely to be noticed on such a scale, but it's happening across the route daily and I suspect is only going to get worse.
Morale is currently rock bottom, and has been for quite some time now. I didn't think it could get worse but yet it keeps sinking. With the current top level management and their attitude towards staff I can't see any change for the better happening any time soon.
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Morgsie
Member
I noticed this earlier today but a tweet from the Lib Dem Press Office twitter account saying that the Southern Franchise should be split to focus on the problems
I waited at London Victoria for more than an hour on Friday night for a train. The 2102 and 2120 were cancelled, the 2117 left about 2145 full and standing, as did the 2150. There was no scope to board either, especially as the latter was only 4 car. Eventually the 2132 left about 2200. In hindsight there were a couple of Gatwick Express trains I could have used at the non-express PAYG rate, but the staff didn't point that out when asked. I'll certainly be putting in a Delay Repay claim. Sounds like I'll have to chase it.
Class377/5
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That's ridiculous as your talking about doing that with multiple trains. Note as well that there will be no relief as there is no driver available so your magic little plan shuts the BML in around 30mins. Clever
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Just shows little they know. Southern doesn't exist other than a brand nor is it a franchise. If they can't get the basics right, how are they ever expecting to get things sorted? Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
bramling
Veteran Member
Why is goodwill so bad on the GN side?
I can understand how things are bad on Southern, but what has GTR done to upset everyone on GN?
From a user's point of view, I've just about given up on GTR/GN. I'm fed up with the weekend service being basically unusable now because it has become so unreliable (which annoys me more having paid for a season ticket, albeit at PRIV rate, and now finding myself using the car every weekend). Now the weekday service is becoming unreliable too - I've not been using the service daily recently due to summer leave, however the last few times I have made a journey either my planned train or the one in front has been cancelled leading to overcrowding and delay. With the prospect of things getting even worse when the inherent unreliability of Thameslink and the inferior class 700s arrive, I've decided I won't be renewing my season ticket in November. I guess I'm fortunate that at the times I travel car is an attractive alternative.
I know I'm not the only person who is doing this.
I'd like to think GTR is a sinking ship, but they seem to be hanging in there.
The whole situation is lamentable because at one point the GN operation was professional and reliable - National Express really turned WAGN round from Prism days such that you could almost set your watch by the trains. FCC was good too. The GN seems to be progressively taking on more of the negative attributes I have always associated with the neighboring Thameslink operation, which is a real shame.
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Same today. Was just about to get train down to London. 4 out of 5 fast trains are cancelled. Think I will drive.
bramling
Veteran Member
They may as well put on the website "It's better for you to drive" and save people wasting time turning up at the station or wasting money on season tickets...
Unfortunately those travelling at peak times are a relatively captive market, off-peak is another matter entirely and for me the service has (regrettably) now passed the tipping point where other options are superior.
CSL2 activated all day on GN today, I think thats at least the third or fourth day in a row. Lack of drivers.
GTR ladies and gentlemen...
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In fact. They have already cancelled the 04:10 Peterborough - Kings Cross tomorrow...
GTR ladies and gentlemen...
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In fact. They have already cancelled the 04:10 Peterborough - Kings Cross tomorrow...
Exactly so how do you propose to fix this
speedy_sticks
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I would transfer all help point information to the GTR UK call centre and integrate one off the mobility assistance apps into tr network so disabled customers can have DIRECT communication with their station of destination to ensure assistance is there.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I was not aware that jonmorris0844 was in any such an official position to accede to your request. Personal thoughts on an internet website that are committed to print are totally a personal matter.
Yes, sadly I am not sure I can do much. I could stop using the train I suppose, but that would actually hurt me financially so pretty silly.
It does seem to me a good indicator of what things could be like if we ever renationalised the railway though. All our worst fears seem to be getting demonstrated here.
Perhaps I should be hoping TfL takes over London routes quicker than 2020 or so (and even that not being set in stone). At least I'd have a hopefully reliable service, albeit a slow one, into London and can consider the GN/TL services only when doing longer distance journeys.
It does seem to me a good indicator of what things could be like if we ever renationalised the railway though. All our worst fears seem to be getting demonstrated here.
Perhaps I should be hoping TfL takes over London routes quicker than 2020 or so (and even that not being set in stone). At least I'd have a hopefully reliable service, albeit a slow one, into London and can consider the GN/TL services only when doing longer distance journeys.
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bramling
Veteran Member
That service normally carries a lot of railway staff to work, including for other TOCs and London Underground. So as well as their own operation now being a shambles, GTR's inability to deliver their timetable could affect other rail operators too.
It's a matter for conjecture how much of GTR's issues are down to them, the government, or inherited from First. However GTR has been running things for some time now and it's clear things are going downhill across the board. Being cynical I think things will only become untenable if peak services start being affected (noone seems to care about weekends), however if things don't start improving soon then in my view it's time to look at whether the franchise is too big or whether there needs to be a change of operator.
Some people predicted lumping Great Northern in with Thameslink was always going to drag performance down - so far this is exactly what has happened.
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Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
Multi-platform stations tend to be the busier ones so a continuous staff presence would be beneficial from both a safety and customer service point of view. Unfortunately the current regime at the DfT seems determined to (belatedly) implement the McNulty recommendations to reduce rail staffing to the absolute minimum. Southern's users are perhaps starting to catch on to this. Maybe GN users are not far behind them.
How have we reached a point where this seems an unrealistic proposal?
Contrary to popular belief, passengers who require assistance don't chose to plan ahead every aspect of their lives because they want to, the system forces it upon them.
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ChiefPlanner
Established Member
It does seem to me a good indicator of what things could be like if we ever renationalised the railway though. All our worst fears seem to be getting demonstrated here.
Can you please explain the logic here ? I do not recall BR having major cancellations on a long running basis . During the 2 national strikes yes - "normally" no. There was usually more than enough train crew around (or prepared to come in for overtime) - running special trains was easy ..
Can you please explain the logic here ? I do not recall BR having major cancellations on a long running basis . During the 2 national strikes yes - "normally" no. There was usually more than enough train crew around (or prepared to come in for overtime) - running special trains was easy ..
I was meaning the push for DOO and cutting station staff, or at least downgrading roles in terms of responsibility and pay.
I am sure that rail would suffer cuts ahead of a lot of other things. Only here, it's a private company doing it on behalf of the DfT.
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I am sure that rail would suffer cuts ahead of a lot of other things. Only here, it's a private company doing it on behalf of the DfT.
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That's ridiculous as your talking about doing that with multiple trains. Note as well that there will be no relief as there is no driver available so your magic little plan shuts the BML in around 30mins. Clever
Who cares? Surely chaos is what Southern want to the detriment on the staff and passengers.
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whoosh
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Check out this documentary from 1993. Particularly the bit from 11:05 to 15:00.
http://youtu.be/sULj6UpGAyU
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