Are DBS any 59 & 60?

[Benbo]

Why is it that DBS seem to want nothing but class 66's to run their trains? I have seen websites that show 66's double heading heavy trains that are easily managed by either a single 59 or a single 60. The 66's are more modern I agree but surely some of the 59's & 60's must be worth having a decent overhaul? I appreciate it's exspensive but they would get there money back in the long term would they not?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And my apologies. The subject hearer should have read 'anti' as opposed to 'any. Its been a long day.......

 

[mbonwick]

There simply aren't enough 59s around to cover all double 66 trains.

60s are in poor mechanical condition and are owned, so it costs DBS nothing to store them.

 

[142094]

The 60s should be receiving some sort of overhaul at this stage in their life to make them usable in the next 20 years. However it seems that DB don't want to do this, which is a shame as 60s could be some of the best locos in service if they were kept in decent condition.

 

[jopsuk]

because operationally, having a single class, even if slightly underpowered (thus requiring some double-heading) makes a heck of a lot of sense. A wide variety of stock is appreciated by enthusiasts (and to a certain extent, drivers and maintainence staff) but the bean counters (who rule all) prefer a unified fleet of newer machines.

 

[kestrel]

66's leased ie cost money whether parked up or working, 60's an 59's owned so cost nothing parked up or working.

Simples DB are a business so money counts, enthusiasts are not a priority

Maybe if the downturn hadn't happened then some sort of refurb' plan ight have been done on the 60's:roll:

 

[Benbo]

Thanks for the info peeps. Surley having a loco that can haul longer heavier loads means DB can also make money that way, and get the best out of the resources available.

Local to me is Crawley New Yard (On London - Brighton main line), and nearly always present was a 60 hauling long heavu stone trains. Now its shorter trains with the delightful 'sheds'. A friend of mine works for DB @ Toton, and reckons that that 60's are more popular to drive than the 66's. I wonder how true that might be?

 

[90019]

Thanks for the info peeps. Surley having a loco that can haul longer heavier loads means DB can also make money that way, and get the best out of the resources available.

No, as already said, DBS pay to lease the 66s regardless of whether they're hauling a train or sitting in a siding or a shed, the 60s on the other hand are owned, so it costs DBs very little when they're doing nothing.
They also have the increased maintainance and parts costs from having a non uniform fleet, made worse if it's a small number of locos.


If you're able to have a uniform fleet of a single locomotive class without compromising your business, you want to do that if it's possible, as it will reduce the overall maintainance and running costs amongst other things, meaning your business is more efficient and will make more profit, which, after all, is what DBS wants beause they're a private company.

 

[TDK]

Thanks for the info peeps. Surley having a loco that can haul longer heavier loads means DB can also make money that way, and get the best out of the resources available.

Local to me is Crawley New Yard (On London - Brighton main line), and nearly always present was a 60 hauling long heavu stone trains. Now its shorter trains with the delightful 'sheds'. A friend of mine works for DB @ Toton, and reckons that that 60's are more popular to drive than the 66's. I wonder how true that might be?

Drivers prefer 60's to 66's however it don't matter what you drive as long as you get paid at the end of the day, you drive what is supplied. 66's are a good versatile loco and to be honest a lot cheaper to maintain or run than a 60 or 59

 

[daccer]

With all the cost cutting being done by DBS it will be interesting to see if it actually has had any effect on their figures when they declare their end of years. I am assuming their income will have been pretty static during their recession and the only way they can improve the bottom line is by reducing costs. If they havent improved this then it does call into question the policies they are following.

 

[WL113]

The poor condition of the Class 60 locomotives is solely due to the policies of EWS/DB. These traction units are probably the best freight locomotives to run in the UK, but they have been criminally neglected by the companies which inherited them, just as the Class 56 and 58 locos were.

A Class 60 will always perform better on freight than a 66, a healthy 60 is a pleasure to work with.

 

[9K43]

Class 60's are by far better then class 66.
A 60 is nice to ride on, good on 12 hour ballast trains and good pullers.
Will lift a full stone train out of Rylstone with ease, and run at 60mph without trouble on the main line to Hull/Hunslet East/Dewsbury trains.
If it were a choice, the class 60 is far better than the weak kneed 66.

 

[mumrar]

Class 60's are by far better then class 66.
A 60 is nice to ride on, good on 12 hour ballast trains and good pullers.
Will lift a full stone train out of Rylstone with ease, and run at 60mph without trouble on the main line to Hull/Hunslet East/Dewsbury trains.
If it were a choice, the class 60 is far better than the weak kneed 66.

But it isn't a choice for the drivers to make, it's down to the whole business. If DBS can ride the recession out, then maybe if freight picks up they can refurb the 60s. But at the moment, there is no sensible business case for a heavy and expensive life extending overhaul. The 60 fleet, although 100 in build, are probably more realistically a total of 20. They shift serviceable parts, bogies etc. between a few members until mileage runs high, store it, do minimal work to get another one out. I'm sure if I ran a taxi firm with 20 year old Rolls Royce the comfort and experience would be unparallelled, but how would my overheads compare to decent, basic, dependable vehicles?

I'm an enthusiast just like a lot of people here, but it doesn't mean I'm blinkered. Capable locos they may be, but the bills they face are huge in comparison, and the odd double-header is not going to close the gap.

 

[Benbo]

Thanks for the last few comments people. I have to agree I guess, that with no sensible buiness case, how could an overhual be justified? I do just wonder though, what DBS would do if the last few 'healthy' 60's went 'bang' (god forbid that won't happen lol).

I saw earlier today a few pics on www.railwayherald.co.uk showing some 59's stored down at Merehead. App 1 of them is due back in service within the next week or so, and that the others are due back probably later this year..... Wait & see I guess....

What about the DBS 37's I wonder? 37425 seems to be the only 1 plodding along at the moment. Prob easier & cheaper to hire from DRS i would think?

 

[60004 lochnagar]

The police are currently at Toton, the stored 60's left by the old bank have been broken into and had there copper stolen. Bad times. I guess it was only a matter of time

 

[Benbo]

Like you said my friend 'it was only a matter of time'. Totally out in the open, no security for them, now DB will have to fork out even further *if* the class are eventually returned to larger numbers. Just hope they don't send them all off to the scrap man, as there must surley be plenty of life left in them with a bit of TLC?

 

[GearJammer]

See this is what annoys me about the way redundant loco are treated, im sure the 60's have plenty of life left in them, as im sure the 56's & 58's did, but EWS/DB Schenker just put them in sidings or depots to rot with little or no protection from thieves or the weather......... it'll come to the point where some of those 60's, which im sure were stored as runners will be no good to anyone except the scrapman!

I recall quite some time back when EWS were just scrapping perfectly good locos at wigans spring branch??????? i believe they were told it was anti competitive and had to offer them for sale, maybe its time somebody stood in and told DB Schenker that if they got no long term plans for them then offer them for sale before there beyond economic repair!

 

[Benbo]

I couldn't agree more if I tried mate. I seriously don't believe for one minute that all the loco's are in that bad a condition (maybe 1 or 2 exceptions) that they can't be used again by A. Another UK company or B. Used overseas.

Do DB not realise that the longer the loco's are left outside, the worse they are going to be, because rust & weather etc, will run them down even further!
I have a mate who works @ Toton, and he tells me that most of the loco's are fit to run (even though a major overhaul would be of benefit) and that DB simply don't like them as they seem them as 'non standard'.

What happens come the autum, when DB no doubt get railhead treatment work, what will happen when they run short on loco's? Rumour is that more UK based 66's are heading off to Poland, so what on earth does DB do then?

 

[WL113]

It puts back into service those class 60s that it can start up with minimal expense.

 

[60004 lochnagar]

I couldn't agree more if I tried mate. I seriously don't believe for one minute that all the loco's are in that bad a condition (maybe 1 or 2 exceptions) that they can't be used again by A. Another UK company or B. Used overseas.

Do DB not realise that the longer the loco's are left outside, the worse they are going to be, because rust & weather etc, will run them down even further!
I have a mate who works @ Toton, and he tells me that most of the loco's are fit to run (even though a major overhaul would be of benefit) and that DB simply don't like them as they seem them as 'non standard'.

What happens come the autum, when DB no doubt get railhead treatment work, what will happen when they run short on loco's? Rumour is that more UK based 66's are heading off to Poland, so what on earth does DB do then?

Further 60's are being maintained and worked upon in preparation for this work. 60013 has just been released allowing a regular runner in for an exam. 60022 should be next out, 60010 & 040 are also in for exams. 60091 is amongst those in line to return, but is currently quarantined.

 

[Benbo]

I seem to remember 60026 being transferred up from Margam a few weeks ago. That was used as a super shunter at Margam. Since then it has vanished. Is that not a runner as well then?