Are airline style seats the way forward?

[route101]

Generally prefer airline. The bays on Scotrail 156s, 158s and HSTs are very small.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

They have similar in Sydney NSW

And on trams back in the 1930s (and up until the mid 2000s in Blackpool). Obviously the type of reversible seats found on the Balloons wouldn't pass muster today, but it was great to be able to create a facing bay of 4 for the family. The more modern versions in Japan and Australia are presumably better in terms of safety in the event of something going wrong, though I imagine the staff aren't too keen on people switching them round willy-nilly so they can play cards.

 

[XAM2175]

Would Japanese-style reversible seats (where passengers can choose to set them as airline or banks of 4) be uneconomic?

They have similar in Sydney NSW

The more modern versions in Japan and Australia are presumably better in terms of safety in the event of something going wrong, though I imagine the staff aren't too keen on people switching them round willy-nilly so they can play cards.

The ones on Sydney's suburban/inter-urban trains are very simple and are explicitly designed for passengers to adjust whenever they wish:

I wouldn't wish to hazard a guess as to how they'd comply with the safety standards in place here.

However, both the current long-distance fleets in NSW (XPT and Xplorer) are fitted with a more sophisticated design where each pair of seats is mounted on a central pivot that is locked and unlocked by a concealed foot pedal. The normal configuration is all-airline, with the cleaners or other staff turning all the seats to face the new direction of travel whenever the train is reversed (which never happens en-route). Groups of passengers can request that some seats be turned to create a facing set, and a small number of detachable tables are carried for this purpose:

COUNTRYLINK XPT FIRST CLASS SEATS

First class seats set up in a group of four, showing the portable table that is used instead of the built-in tray table on the back of the seats.

www.flickr.com

The major downside with this system as it relates to groups is that the seats are fixed in the airline pitch, which means that the passengers in the rotated seats have to share the legroom of the passengers facing the "normal" direction, as can be seen here without the table installed:

COUNTRYLINK XPT FIRST CLASS SEAT

First Class seats showing the full recline of the seat. Compared to the Economy Class seat the recline is about the only difference between the two classes seating.

www.flickr.com

I suspect that it's a similar arrangement used in Japan, India, and a few other places (some parts of the US come to mind), and I don't think they've resolved the pitch issue either.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The ones on Sydney's suburban/inter-urban trains are very simple and are explicitly designed for passengers to adjust whenever they wish:

I wouldn't wish to hazard a guess as to how they'd comply with the safety standards in place here.

That's more like the reversible tram seats we used to have here. I'd be astonished if it was possible to design a locking mechanism that would meet modern safety regulations.

 

[WideRanger]

I suspect that it's a similar arrangement used in Japan, India, and a few other places (some parts of the US come to mind), and I don't think they've resolved the pitch issue either.

I can think of a couple of lines where the back flips over in Japan. But in most cases, the whole seat twists around, when a pedal under the seat is pressed. (And on the Shinkansen, it happens electrically at the terminus, but can be selected manually by passengers at any time)

 

[Sonik]

The 350 is an excellent train.

And only the 350/2s have 3+2 seating.

Agreed

And the 350/2 are being replaced anyway by Adventras, with 2+2 IIRC, so no more 3+2 on LNWR

 

[david1212]

Voyagers have far too few groups of 4 seats around a table and only in coach B do the tables align so in a five carriage set just two blocks of 8 seats. Seeing a group with young childern in airline seats that do not even align across the gangway is awful. To allow some activity space I have seen the adult with their feet ( shoes off ) on the adjacent seat then the child(ren) on the floor. OT but here lack of luggage space also a problem as the seat with feet on also had luggage.

Given the 1/3 / 2/3 door layout the Chiltern 168's strike a reasonable balance of tables and airline seats plus seat / window alignment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given the 1/3 / 2/3 door layout the Chiltern 168's strike a reasonable balance of tables and airline seats plus seat / window alignment.

The Turbostar (all types) is a sensible design, as it has one window width as the correct width for a Standard class bay, unlike the recent CAF kit (other than Class 196 where I believe extra was paid for it to do so).