applying for a driver job.

[bigswan4]

Hi Guys,

A bit of advice if you would.

Can someone let me know if its worth me applying for a Train Driver job as I am worried about the CRB check.

Nothing I have done, but 13 years ago I was working for a company and sold a car not knowing it had a speedo change when it was new. the company was taken to court and me being the sales person.

I was given 50 hours Community service for fraud, and the company was fined £5500.

As this was 13 years ago and to be honest I was only doing my job by selling the vehicle, will this go against me? (I had no idea that the vehicle had a speedo change and had done 2,000 miles more)

I have spoken to a few people who say its 'Spent'? as its over 5 (some say 7) years ago.

This happened back in 2001.

Thank you for any help.

Sean

 

[bigswan4]

Thank you for your reply.

is there anyone I can talk to before I waste my time or get my hopes up.

As for the case, it did go to the crown court, I was young and just thought the company I worked for were doing things right?

Thanks again,

Sean

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Silv1983 is wrong. You were not sent to prison, therefore under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act your conviction becomes spent 5 years after conviction (conviction, not date crime was committed.)

The only exceptions are if the employer has an exemption and can perform enhanced CRB's, so for example if you wanted to work with children or vulnerable adults.

Since TOCs do not have this exemption then you will not have to declare this as part of your criminal record and when they do a basic check they will not find out about your past. You know that bit on the application where it asks about criminal convictions "except those deemed spent under Rehabilitation of Offenders Act," well that applies to you. So, unless someone comes along and tells me I am wrong, get applying, DO NOT declare it, stop worrying and move on. You have done your time!

The whole point of the RoOA is to ensure people can move on with their lives after making a mistake.

 

[bigswan4]

I am not a legal eagle but I am almost certain Silv1983 is wrong here. You were not sent to prison, therefore under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act your conviction becomes spent 5 years after conviction (conviction, not date crime was committed.)

The only exceptions are if the employer has an exemption and can perform enhanced CRB's, so for example if you wanted to work with children or vulnerable adults.

Since TOCs do not have this exemption then you will not have to declare a criminal record and when they do a basic check they will not find out about your past. So, unless someone comes along and tells me I am wrong, get applying, stop worrying and move on. You have done your time!

The whole point of the RoOA is to ensure people can move on with their lives after making a mistake.

Thank you so much, this is a huge weight off my mind!

Let just hope no one comes along and says different.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Thank you so much, this is a huge weight off my mind!

Let just hope no one comes along and says different.

Since I wrote that post I had a quick look and I am definately right, I have edited my post to make it clearer. If you are still unsure then ask at a CAB centre but really you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Daniel84]

I agree that it would be spent and therefore only show on or need to be declared for an enhanced CRB check, which this role does not require.

Good luck with process.

 

[W230]

Apply! Got to throw your hat into the ring at least. I really can't see it being a problem, as others have said.

 

[Silv1983]

Silv1983 is wrong. You were not sent to prison, therefore under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act your conviction becomes spent 5 years after conviction (conviction, not date crime was committed.)

How am I wrong? I didn't say anything about the conviction being spent or not. The OP didn't asked a specific question about if it would show up or not: so I gave some general info. YES in the above circumstances it will be spent - and if the TOC use a basic check it won't show thanks to protection under ROOA. If they use the enhanced one however for a few more quid - it could show. Either way - we won't know - and it is on his CR for life. Being 'spent' doesn't actually mean the ink physically disappears off the record.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

How am I wrong? I didn't say anything about the conviction being spent or not. The OP didn't asked a specific question about if it would show up or not: so I gave some general info.

Sorry Silv but you were wrong. Unfortunately, your post has been deleted so I cannot refer back to it.

For a start the question was specific, how can you possibly say otherwise? He is clearly worried about a historic conviction working against him if he applies and asked about it, giving specific dates and penalties. The answer is clearly no, it won't. You also said he could expect future employers to just look at his application form and bin it, which is just wrong.

YES in the above circumstances it will be spent - and if the TOC use a basic check it won't show thanks to protection under ROOA. If they use the enhanced one however for a few more quid - it could show. Either way - we won't know - and it is on his CR for life. Being 'spent' doesn't actually mean the ink physically disappears off the record.

You didn't say any of this however. Plus even this is partially wrong! An employer cannot just "Use the enhanced one for a few more quid"!
Only employers who have specific exemptions can use Standard Disclosure or Enhanced Disclosure and even then there are strict rules regarding proportionality and fairness which apply. I am not 100% sure but as far as I am aware the application for anything above Basic Disclosure even has to be approved by a third party as a form of protection.

So, yes we do know. They WILL NOT use anything other than Basic Disclosure because they are not allowed to, as it would not be proportionate. Plus they have to make it clear what sort of disclosure they will ask for!
When you applied to join Northern you will have filled in a box about criminal records - "except those deemed spent under RoOA" so you should know all this.


The only TOC/FOC to my knowledge which might have an exemption is DRS but don't hold me to that. If an employer (for example DRS) has an exemption, it will be made absolutely clear on the application form and presumably on the job advert. On the form you will have to fill in both unspent and spent convictions, probably in separate boxes.

 

[Silv1983]

Sorry Silv but you were wrong. Unfortunately, your post has been deleted so I cannot refer back to it.

For a start the question was specific, how can you possibly say otherwise? He is clearly worried about a historic conviction working against him if he applies and asked about it, giving specific dates and penalties. The answer is clearly no, it won't. You also said he could expect future employers to just look at his application form and bin it which, to be frank, is appalling advice.



You didn't say any of this however. Plus even this is partially wrong! An employer cannot just "Use the enhanced one for a few more quid"!
Only employers who have specific exemptions can use Standard Disclosure or Enhanced Disclosure and even then there are strict rules regarding proportionality and fairness which apply. I am not 100% sure but as far as I am aware the application for anything above Basic Disclosure even has to be approved by a third party as a form of protection.

So, yes we do know. They WILL NOT use anything other than Basic Disclosure because they are not allowed to, as it would not be proportionate. Plus they have to make it clear what sort of disclosure they will ask for!
When you applied to join Northern you will have filled in a box about criminal records - "except those deemed spent under RoOA" so you should know all this.


The only TOC/FOC to my knowledge which might have an exemption is DRS but don't hold me to that. If an employer (for example DRS) has an exemption, it will be made absolutely clear on the application form and presumably on the job advert. On the form you will have to fill in both unspent and spent convictions, probably in separate boxes.

I've just re-read the post. The only questions are "Can someone tell me if its worth apply for a train driver job", and "will this go against me".

I said "Yes it's worth it" to the first, and said it would go against him if the information was obtained. I didn't go into the specifics of spent convictions, basic or enhanced checks - I just said the record would be there for some to glean in certain circumstances.

As for saying future employers (plural?) would bin his application you're fantasising the context of my advice. I said if disclosed, it would go against him (as per one of the only questions in the OP) as the competition is high and they would probably use it as an excuse. Why do you want to wrap people in cotton wool?

Finally, when it came to the convictions questions on my application, I ticked 'no' and moved on as I haven't ever been on the wrong side of the law in any way - so why would I read the small print about ROOA?

 

[BravoGolfMike]

I've just re-read the post. The only questions are "Can someone tell me if its worth apply for a train driver job", and "will this go against me".

I said "Yes it's worth it" to the first, and said it would go against him if the information was obtained. I didn't go into the specifics of spent convictions, basic or enhanced checks - I just said the record would be there for some to glean in certain circumstances.

As for saying future employers (plural?) would bin his application you're fantasising the context of my advice. I said if disclosed, it would go against him (as per one of the only questions in the OP) as the competition is high and they would probably use it as an excuse. Why do you want to wrap people in cotton wool?

A) They will not find out as the conviction is spent. The only way they would is if they had an exemption (which will be made clear) or if someone reports him at a later date. Or if he reported himself after receiving bad advice on the internet.

B) If they did somehow find out about it they would not be allowed to take it into account. He would also probably be able to sue the person who illegally disclosed the information.

C) If they did take it into account (say, he was employed then later sacked for non-disclosure,) they would be in direct breach of the RoOA and the OP would almost certainly win an unfair dismissal tribunal, if the employers solicitors allowed it to go that far.

I am not wrapping the OP up in cotton wool, I am simply explaining the law (as far as I understand it!)

Finally, when it came to the convictions questions on my application, I ticked 'no' and moved on as I haven't ever been on the wrong side of the law in any way - so why would I read the small print about ROOA?

Accepted.

 

[Silv1983]

You're right BGM in so far as in theory - this chap should be protected, but as a quick search of google has revealed: unfortunately a hell of a lot of employers are making illegal checks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7548467.stm

On the goverment website, it appears all you have to do as an employer to get the enhanced check over the basic one - is pay an extra £18!

The only warning is "An employer must not apply for a check unless the job or role is eligible for one." Not very well policed I say. It seems anyone can try and justify why their company needs an enhanced check.

https://www.gov.uk/disclosure-barring-service-check/overview

p.s. sorry bigswan not trying to panic you! Im sure you'll be fine as TOCS are always trying to save £££

 

[Geargrinder]

Its a question you will never know truly know the answer too unless you apply. If you don't have to declare it then don't, if a TOC does the enhanced search and finds out they will have to decide whether its something which bothers them. Bearing in mind they probably don't do such searches until you've already been offered a job, and if you legally don't have to declare it you've done nothing wrong, what can they do then ?

If you don't buy a ticket you can't win the raffle

 

[455driver]

plus bearing in mind the type of crime and how long ago it was, is it relevant?

 

[TDK]

You're right BGM in so far as in theory - this chap should be protected, but as a quick search of google has revealed: unfortunately a hell of a lot of employers are making illegal checks.

Is this fact or just your view? Do you have a source on this?

 

[Silv1983]

Is this fact or just your view? Do you have a source on this?

Play with google for five minutes. It appears a lot of employers flout the guidelines.

 

[A-driver]

Hi Guys,

A bit of advice if you would.

Can someone let me know if its worth me applying for a Train Driver job as I am worried about the CRB check.

Nothing I have done, but 13 years ago I was working for a company and sold a car not knowing it had a speedo change when it was new. the company was taken to court and me being the sales person.

I was given 50 hours Community service for fraud, and the company was fined £5500.

As this was 13 years ago and to be honest I was only doing my job by selling the vehicle, will this go against me? (I had no idea that the vehicle had a speedo change and had done 2,000 miles more)

I have spoken to a few people who say its 'Spent'? as its over 5 (some say 7) years ago.

This happened back in 2001.

Thank you for any help.

Sean

I have said this before with these threads and will say it again...

Whilst I understand you are just looking for a bit of a 'heads up' on what to expect, no one on here is able to answer your specific question. Your best bet is to apply and see what happens, keeping in mind that it MAY be an issue.

The worst that can happen is that they don't offer you a job over it. But you certainly won't be offered the job if you don't apply.

These cases differ vastly depending on the company and your specific circumstances so apply and see what happens. Of course be honest and if asked to declare it but I have been through the driver recruitment process with 2 companies (once as a trainee, once as a qualified) and neither has done a CRB check or anything similar on me.