AP tickets at rural stations

[Failed Unit]

It is a separate debate, but it's based on supply and demand. Start offering lots of these tickets from rural stations and they'd come out of the quota for the principle stations. Then we'd see threads on why someone can never find an AP ticket from say Newcastle to Birmingham! .

I see your point but the logic is odd.

Lets say that Newark - London has a quote of 5 AP tickets, they are all bought by people from Market Rasen who drive to Newark to use them. Why is this better than if the person had bought the AP ticket from Market Rasen, the rural line would get more passengers and the 6th person couldn't find the AP ticket in the first place. I suspect in reality it is hard to manage and apportion the revenue correctly. My point is that the person at the rural station will travel to the principle station and use on of that stations quota. It is better if the person could just use the rural station instead.

I myself have bought an AP ticket between principle stations, 2 examples:

Wanted travel from Edinburgh - Market Rasen
1: Tickets bought: Edinburgh - Newark AP, Doncaster - Market Rasen SVR. Why? Because if the train from Edinburgh arrived at Newark late the TOC would have no obligation to get me to my final destination. By stating back from Doncaster (where the Edinburgh train stops) this covers me. Going the other way is even worse as you need to leave a long gap or more realistically drive. My Market Rasen - Doncaster ticket will get me to Doncaster OK but as the train towards Edinburgh has gone tough, it is my fault for not arriving on time. On a rural line the train before results in a 2 hour wait.

2: Tickets bought: Nottingham - Cardiff AP and Market Rasen - Derby SVR.
reason, simular to above missed connections on rural services.

Edinburgh - Market Rasen does now have AP's but to go to cardiff you still need to split or buy a lot higher priced ticket. That is really why I am saying the system discrimates against rural stations. If I drive I still eat into the quota of the principle station however.

 

[John @ home]

Wanted travel from Edinburgh - Market Rasen
1: Tickets bought: Edinburgh - Newark AP, Doncaster - Market Rasen SVR. Why? Because if the train from Edinburgh arrived at Newark late the TOC would have no obligation to get me to my final destination. By stating back from Doncaster (where the Edinburgh train stops) this covers me.

I don't agree with your interpretation of the term & conditions. In my opinion, all TOCs do have an obligation to get you to your final destination in these circumstances.

C. USE OF TICKETS
19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one
ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
You must comply with any restriction shown on the tickets relating to travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies (see Condition 10).

H. TRAIN SERVICE DISRUPTION
43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company which is in a position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get you to that destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

We asked ATOC to confirm that, when making one journey using a combination of tickets in accordance with the NCoC, passengers could continue their journey by a later service where a connection was missed. Their reply was meaningless.

We asked Passenger Focus to confirm it. They replied that in these circumstances passengers should be allowed to complete their journey. I don't think "should" is good enough to give passengers confidence. I will seek to raise the issue with the Chief Exec of PF at their Board meeting on Wednesday.

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't agree with your interpretation of the term & conditions. In my opinion, all TOCs do have an obligation to get you to your final destination in these circumstances.We asked ATOC to confirm that, when making one journey using a combination of tickets in accordance with the NCoC, passengers could continue their journey by a later service where a connection was missed. Their reply was meaningless.

We asked Passenger Focus to confirm it. They replied that in these circumstances passengers should be allowed to complete their journey. I don't think "should" is good enough to give passengers confidence. I will seek to raise the issue with the Chief Exec of PF at their Board meeting on Wednesday.

Thanks for this, if it was clear I am sure more passengers would be happy to use the train to get to their ultimate destination.

I know if we have,

Cardiff - Nottingham £20,
Nottingham - Market Rasen £10
Just print Cardiff - Market Rasen and charge £30. I know the problem then is that you have AP restrictions on some of the journey and normal tickets on the other.

I did nearly have a real example to see what would happen. Two sets of AP tickets Market Rasen - London & London - Cardiff the gaurd on the National Express east coast train at the time said "it is upto the discresion of the FGW gaurd to pass the ticket". National Express east coast train was due to arrive into London at 1647, FGW train to Cardiff was due to leave London at 1915. The National Express east coast train arrived at 1838. I made the FGW train by the skin of my teeth (it was on a platform with no barriers). But the National Express east coast gaurd was under the impression that as my ticket was a London - Cardiff AP - First Great Western would be within there rights to refuse to let me use it on the 1945 as I wasn't though ticketed.

At least I got there, didn't even get any compensation from National Express as they "lost the tickets". I guess I got to my final destination at the same time, just age a lot crossing London

 

[ashworth]

I find EMT especially bad at providing Advance Purchase Tickcets with connections. Travelling to any important destination on the busy Liverpool-Norwich route always requires split ticketing if you want to use a connecting service. This is even the case when the connecting service is also run by EMT. It is fairly easy to get cheaper AP tickets from Sheffield or Nottingham to destinations like Manchester, Liverpool, Ely or Norwich but they are never available from stations such as Mansfield or from other local EMT stations.
I know that Lincoln has the same problems as Mansfield.

Why can't EMT provide such tickets as East Coast do. You can get east Coast AP Tickets with connections from Mansfield, either via Nottingham and Grantham or Worksop and Retford to most northern destinations on the ECML. I presume it is the same for Lincoln.

 

[Failed Unit]

I find EMT especially bad at providing Advance Purchase Tickcets with connections. Travelling to any important destination on the busy Liverpool-Norwich route always requires split ticketing if you want to use a connecting service. This is even the case when the connecting service is also run by EMT. It is fairly easy to get cheaper AP tickets from Sheffield or Nottingham to destinations like Manchester, Liverpool, Ely or Norwich but they are never available from stations such as Mansfield or from other local EMT stations.
I know that Lincoln has the same problems as Mansfield.

Why can't EMT provide such tickets as East Coast do. You can get east Coast AP Tickets with connections from Mansfield, either via Nottingham and Grantham or Worksop and Retford to most northern destinations on the ECML. I presume it is the same for Lincoln.

From Lincolnshire most journeys priced by East Coast have quota's of Advanced tickets. London St Pancras does on the direct train. Journeys priced by other operators including EMT, Transpennie Express and Cross Country don't. If you want to go to Manchester your choices are drive to say Scunthorpe or re-book. It also happened in Scotland you can get AP's from stations that the train stops at, so you can have Stirling - Aberdeen but not Croy. This may have changed now as well.

 

[Chris B]

Cardiff - Nottingham £20,
Nottingham - Market Rasen £10

This is a legit journety per the Routing Guide, and therefore would expect the latter TOC to allow onward travel if the first train was delayed....

Two sets of AP tickets Market Rasen - London & London - Cardiff

This route doesn't exist & is therefore two separate journeys, thus your responsibility to allow sufficient time to catch your onward train, and your only recourse if you miss it is through compensation claim on the first TOC....

 

[northwichcat]

I don't agree with your interpretation of the term & conditions. In my opinion, all TOCs do have an obligation to get you to your final destination in these circumstances.We asked ATOC to confirm that, when making one journey using a combination of tickets in accordance with the NCoC, passengers could continue their journey by a later service where a connection was missed. Their reply was meaningless.

We asked Passenger Focus to confirm it. They replied that in these circumstances passengers should be allowed to complete their journey. I don't think "should" is good enough to give passengers confidence. I will seek to raise the issue with the Chief Exec of PF at their Board meeting on Wednesday.

Most TOCs take the approach if you have two ticket parts then you've paid for two journeys which aren't connected. For example, if you have an advance Stockport to London ticket for a specific train and a separte Heaton Chapel to Stockport ticket and the Heaton Chapel train is delayed and you miss the London train then Virgin will not honour your ticket on the new train, if you have a Heaton Chapel-London ticket then it's a different story. Then if for an Alderley Edge to Huddersfield journey you spilt your tickets at Manchester and suffer a 60 minute delay you would only be compensated on the ticket you were delayed on for 60 minutes, not both tickets.

From the TOC's point of view you could have arrived late at the station through your own fault and found a discarded ticket that you thought you'd try and use as a get out of jail free card.

 

[John @ home]

Most TOCs take the approach if you have two ticket parts then you've paid for two journeys which aren't connected.

Are you able to quote evidence for this assertion?

 

[Chris B]

Are you able to quote evidence for this assertion?

I can't......BUT the NCoC refers to only having several tickets for the single train jouney (for example - Padd - Didcot, Didcot - Bristol Parkway, Parkway - Cardiff) for a Padd - Cardiff trip (on a train that stops at those intermediate stations, of course).

It is your responsibility to present yourself in time to catch your booked train if travelling on Advance Tickets....no one elses. If you choose not to book through from start to finish, it is you who accept the risk of serious delay. Why should a TOC take the risk when you're not paying the second TOC a fare that allows for 'open' travel?

 

[Failed Unit]

This route doesn't exist & is therefore two separate journeys, thus your responsibility to allow sufficient time to catch your onward train, and your only recourse if you miss it is through compensation claim on the first TOC....

Really? I thought that there was always a Market Rasen - Cardiff via London ticket or is the underground the bit that breaks the link with this split.

Luckily someone now prices the flow direct Market Rasen - Cardiff route London and Reading starting from £21 AP or £106.60 super off peak return.

So it looks like AP travel via London is now go without splitting the journeys you must ask route London on the booking engine. No more XC for me then, how times have changed. (I honestly didn't know these fare existing until 5 minutes ago.) You can do most of FGW routes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is your responsibility to present yourself in time to catch your booked train if travelling on Advance Tickets....no one elses. If you choose not to book through from start to finish, it is you who accept the risk of serious delay. Why should a TOC take the risk when you're not paying the second TOC a fare that allows for 'open' travel?

Although I see things have improved for a lot of the journeys I do, that was my point about it harming local stations which may only have a train every other hour. Are you going to really wait at the principle for 2 hours or drive? I know that roads can have massive delays as well but you can leave when you want for that. On some long distance journeys that would start from a rural station you may only have 1 or 2 options per day.

You could argue most inter-city services are frequent, but not on all flows such as Aberdeen and Inverness from England by direct trains.

 

[John @ home]

the NCoC refers to only having several tickets for the single train jouney

That's not right. The relevant part of the NcoC states

C. USE OF TICKETS
19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one
ticket to another; or (c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

To interpret one journey as limited to a single train is not sustainable because this interpretation conflicts with other parts of the NCoC. For example, the rules for break of journey

C. USE OF TICKETS
16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other publications.

make no sense if a journey is limited to travel on one train only. It is plain, therefore, that a journey may be undertaken using a combination of tickets on several trains.

It is your responsibility to present yourself in time to catch your booked train if travelling on Advance Tickets

That's not quite right either. The Conditions of Use of Advance Tickets say

Conditions of use
* You must be at the departure station shown on your ticket in good time to catch the train. If you miss the first train on which you are booked for any reason, a new ticket must be purchased.
* If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html

Journey is not defined in the Advance ticket terms and conditions, and therefore takes the same meaning as in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. In addition, the Advance ticket terms and conditions introduce the term valid travel itinerary:

When and where the ticket can be used
If the ‘Route’ also states ‘and Connections’, travel is allowed on appropriate connecting trains where shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary.

The term valid travel itinerary is not defined in any railway rules, regulations, terms or conditions in the public domain, therefore these words bear their normal meaning in the English language. It is plain, therefore, that a passenger travelling with an Advance ticket where the route states ‘and Connections’ may travel in accordance with any valid travel itinerary they hold, for example a printout of the confirmation of their internet booking. The valid travel itinerary may involve one or more tickets for zero, one or more trains, zero, one or more buses and any other form of public transport, eg. ship, which is shown on the itinerary to be part of the journey. Rail replacement buses may be included and would be treated as trains for these purposes. PlusBus tickets would also be part of the journey if shown on the valid travel itinerary because on the back of each PlusBus ticket is printed the words Travel is subject to National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC). In each case, the passenger benefits from the condition If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.

If you choose not to book through from start to finish, it is you who accept the risk of serious delay.

A pasenger with valid ticket(s) and a valid travel itinerary benefits, in case of delay, from the protections stated in the ticket terms and conditions.

Why should a TOC take the risk when you're not paying the second TOC a fare that allows for 'open' travel?

The train company must take the risk because the terms of their franchise or licence require them to operate in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

 

[paul1609]

Are you able to quote evidence for this assertion?

I know of FGW refusing to provide onward travel at Bristol Temple Meads to a sailor returning on leave from Blackpool to Portsmouth who was delayed on a XC service and missed the FGW connection to Portsmouth Harbour when traveling on 2 tickets. I doubt he has the evidence now but it does happen. I had to drive to Reading to pick him up.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

That's not right. The relevant part of the NcoC statesTo interpret one journey as limited to a single train is not sustainable because this interpretation conflicts with other parts of the NCoC. For example, the rules for break of journeymake no sense if a journey is limited to travel on one train only. It is plain, therefore, that a journey may be undertaken using a combination of tickets on several trains.That's not quite right either. The Conditions of Use of Advance Tickets sayJourney is not defined in the Advance ticket terms and conditions, and therefore takes the same meaning as in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. In addition, the Advance ticket terms and conditions introduce the term valid travel itinerary:The term valid travel itinerary is not defined in any railway rules, regulations, terms or conditions in the public domain, therefore these words bear their normal meaning in the English language. It is plain, therefore, that a passenger travelling with an Advance ticket where the route states and Connections may travel in accordance with any valid travel itinerary they hold, for example a printout of the confirmation of their internet booking. The valid travel itinerary may involve one or more tickets for zero, one or more trains, zero, one or more buses and any other form of public transport, eg. ship, which is shown on the itinerary to be part of the journey. Rail replacement buses may be included and would be treated as trains for these purposes. PlusBus tickets would also be part of the journey if shown on the valid travel itinerary because on the back of each PlusBus ticket is printed the words Travel is subject to National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC). In each case, the passenger benefits from the condition If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.A pasenger with valid ticket(s) and a valid travel itinerary benefits, in case of delay, from the protections stated in the ticket terms and conditions.The train company must take the risk because the terms of their franchise or licence require them to operate in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

But Condition 7 could also be used as a valid argument that the 2nd TOC is not duty bound to honour your ticket if you had booked two seperate tickets and got delayed on the first.

Condition 7 says :

"The Train Company whose trains you have the right to use, or who has agreed to provide you with any other goods or services, is responsible for providing the goods and services it has agreed to provide. However, the Train Company or its agents are not responsible for :
a - another train company not running any trains;
b - another person not providing goods or services;
c - any losses that occur while you are travelling on any other Train Company's trains."

In addition, Condition 1 says "A ticket that has been issued to you is evidence of a contract between you and each Train Company on whose trains you have the right to use."

Thus, in the case of the Heaton Chapel to London with break of ticket at Stockport, in My opinion, Virgin could reasonably argue that your advance ticket from Stockport to London is your contract with us. Your Heaton Chapel to Stockport ticket is your contract with Northern. They are not responsible for the actions of another train company in this case as you have two separate contracts with two separate train companies.

Now I know this may not be morally correct, but my understanding of this wording is that Virgin (for example) would be quite within their rights to charge you again if you failed to turn up on time for your Advance ticket when the Northern train was late - IF you had two separate tickets.

 

[yorkie]

That interpretation makes no sense, as otherwise you could say that ANY missed train could result in onward travel being refused by another company as they are "not responsible". I do not think the "Not responsible" quote is meant in that context. They still have to accept onward travel irrespective of whether they are "responsible" or not. I believe it means you cannot claim compensation from the other company and you cannot blame them. That does not mean you are not entitled to onward travel.

The key here is the use of the word "journey". But, we have had this discussion several times before

ATOC state that they expect the whole journey on multiple tickets to be honoured.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

That interpretation makes no sense, as otherwise you could say that ANY missed train could result in onward travel being refused by another company as they are "not responsible". I do not think the "Not responsible" quote is meant in that context. They still have to accept onward travel irrespective of whether they are "responsible" or not. I believe it means you cannot claim compensation from the other company and you cannot blame them. That does not mean you are not entitled to onward travel.

The key here is the use of the word "journey". But, we have had this discussion several times before

ATOC state that they expect the whole journey on multiple tickets to be honoured.

I must say I didn't necessarily agree with the interpretation I stated, but I can understand how those points could be argued.

Personally, the ticket should be honoured provided the minimum connection time has been allowed.

I can understand how condition 7 could be interpreted against the passenger, mainly as I have heard TOCs use the argument before. Like most things it is very vague and not very clear at all.

 

[yorkie]

No problem. I just think that anyone making that interpretation isn't applying common sense, but some people do not apply sense so yes I can see what you are saying. At the end of the day ATOC really should not be allowing so many things to be open to interpretation.

 

[Chris B]

That's not right. The relevant part of the In addition, the Advance ticket terms and conditions introduce the term valid travel itinerary:The term valid travel itinerary is not defined in any railway rules, regulations, terms or conditions in the public domain, therefore these words bear their normal meaning in the English language.

'Valid' being the operative word, but otherwise I can accept your post.

I strongly suspect ATOC could argue that for a 'journey' to be valid, it must exist per the routing guide.

However, I also accept

But Condition 7 could also be used as a valid argument that the 2nd TOC is not duty bound to honour your ticket if you had booked two seperate tickets and got delayed on the first.

Condition 7 says :

"The Train Company whose trains you have the right to use, or who has agreed to provide you with any other goods or services, is responsible for providing the goods and services it has agreed to provide. However, the Train Company or its agents are not responsible for :
a - another train company not running any trains;
b - another person not providing goods or services;
c - any losses that occur while you are travelling on any other Train Company's trains."

In addition, Condition 1 says "A ticket that has been issued to you is evidence of a contract between you and each Train Company on whose trains you have the right to use."

Thus, in the case of the Heaton Chapel to London with break of ticket at Stockport, in My opinion, Virgin could reasonably argue that your advance ticket from Stockport to London is your contract with us. Your Heaton Chapel to Stockport ticket is your contract with Northern. They are not responsible for the actions of another train company in this case as you have two separate contracts with two separate train companies.

Now I know this may not be morally correct, but my understanding of this wording is that Virgin (for example) would be quite within their rights to charge you again if you failed to turn up on time for your Advance ticket when the Northern train was late - IF you had two separate tickets.

Two separate Advance tickets definitely = two separate contracts between you & the TOC(s) for carriage, between the points on each ticket.

So whether you can legally expect the second TOC - whose condition of carriage DOES require you to arrive in time to catch your train(s) specified on your second ticket - to ignore that condition is a moot point. The second TOC cannot be held responsible for the first TOCs delay.....under any circumstances.

So your first contract ends on arrival at the destination station of your first ticket. The second, completely separate contract, only starts when you board the specified train at the (same, presumably) departure station specifed on your second ticket. If you fail to arrive in time, the second TOC definitely has that condition that you turn up in time as a valid condition.

I think this is the difference between Advance fares and 'ordinary fares' where the NCoC states that a (whole) journey must be allowed to be completed, regardless of who creates the delay.

Hence the story above about FGW refusing carriage because of an XC delay on the first journey is valid & correct.

 

[tony_mac]

not this again!

I believe that advance tickets are actually open to all sorts of challenges with respect to the Unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations.

As yorkie (et al.) has pointed out many times, more than one ticket can be combined to constitute a single 'journey'; while there is no obvious definition of journey, it's reasonable to assume it means the same thing as other mentions of the word 'journey' in the same document.

Remember that, in the event of ambiguity, the consumer has the right to the most advantageous interpretation.

Many advance tickets are not available from connecting stations, for whatever (probably stupid) reasons and people aren't really left with much choice but to buy seperately. Train operating companies actually tell you to do this on occassion, and have never warned that they won't honour the second ticket in the event of delay.

A common-sense approach is, obviously, to let you travel on the next service. It costs them nothing and saves a lot of hassle, bad publicity and potentially legal action and allows the passengers to have some confidence in the railway.

I strongly suspect ATOC could argue that for a 'journey' to be valid, it must exist per the routing guide.

That doesn't really make sense. Then a return journey would not be a valid journey, and they could strand you at the destination if they so chose.

Advance tickets are often routed over invalid routes anyway.

 

[Chris B]

That doesn't really make sense. Then a return journey would not be a valid journey, and they could strand you at the destination if they so chose.

Pardon, please explain?

That would be a return 'journey' then - and if the outward appears in the Routing Guide, then so should the 'journey' in the opposite direction?

 

[OwlMan]

ATOC on their new website (http://www.bestvaluefares.co.uk) state the following:

•If you purchase an Advance ticket from a train company, you must use that ticket on the train services specified. However, if you miss this service because your connecting train was delayed you will be able to travel on the next service provided by the same train company without penalty.

Peter

 

[northwichcat]

Are you able to quote evidence for this assertion?

When I had an advance ticket for a Northern service + a Virgin service, prior to travelling I contacted Virgin to check on their policy in case the Northern service was delayed and I missed the Virgin train on my ticket.

Their response was that only if it's a ticket covering both journeys then your ticket would be accepted on a later journey, but even then only if the train manager gives you the green light to board the service.

 

[tony_mac]

Pardon, please explain?

ok, here's my logic!

you claimed that two tickets combined over an invalid route could not constitute a single journey.

So, you are saying that two tickets combined can only form a valid single journey if the route is valid from the origin of the first ticket to the destination of the second. (that's just a rewording, the logic is the same)

A return journey from origin back to origin does not fit your definition of a valid single journey.

and I believe that a return journey can constitute a single journey.

If, for example, your outward journey is so delayed that you now have to return immediately, then if it wasn't a single journey they could simply leave you at your destination rather than returning you home - and tell you that you shouldn't have arrived at the station too late to travel.

Therfore, if a return ticket can be a valid journey, then it is not always necessary to have a valid route from origin of ticket 1 to the destination of ticket 2 to combine the two tickets into a single journey.

Their response was that only if it's a ticket covering both journeys then your ticket would be accepted on a later journey, but even then only if the train manager gives you the green light to board the service.

Well that's obviously a load of c**k!
'Sorry Sir, your train was late - that will be £80 please!'

 

[Chris B]

ATOC on their new website (http://www.bestvaluefares.co.uk) state the following:

•If you purchase an Advance ticket from a train company, you must use that ticket on the train services specified. However, if you miss this service because your connecting train was delayed you will be able to travel on the next service provided by the same train company without penalty.

THere's your answer then - print it off & carry it with you!!

 

[ashworth]

Their response was that only if it's a ticket covering both journeys then your ticket would be accepted on a later journey, but even then only if the train manager gives you the green light to board the service.

I once had experience of this when travelling with an Advance Ticket from Mansfield to London in the days of Central Trains and MML.
My train from Mansfield was late arriving in Nottingham and I missed my connection to London.

When I arrived at Nottingham and explained the situation there was no re-assurance of 'that is OK, it was not your fault, travel on the next train'.
I was treated as though it was a real big problem that had to be cleared with the train manager of the next service to London. The train manager had gone for his break and I had to wait on a cold platform for 15 minutes before his permission could be asked. All the time I was given the impression that if he did let me travel on his train he would be doing me a big favour, as it was peak time on a Friday, and it may not be possible etc etc etc.

Not the way a passenger who may already be feeling stressed at missing the connection would want to be treated.
Eventually I was allowed to board the next London train after I had been made to feel that I was in the wrong.

And that was when travelling with a through AP ticket!

 

[Chris B]

Totally wrong, if it was a through ticket - no permission required.

Just get the train manager of delayed train to endorse your ticket that you were delayed en-route, and climb on board the second without asking.

 

[yorkie]

2 contracts eh? so what, who cares? do you deny peterborough - huntingdon season + huntingdon - london CDR is valid on EC? please give a reason either way.

endorse? why? where is this stated or is it made up? what if you don't get it endorsed (for any reason)

 

[Chris B]

It is specified at as OK in the NCoC, your (split ticket) journey (which would be on ONE train - which really isn't the discussion here, which is multui-train journeys on split ADVANCE tickets)

Endorse to prove that the delay in arrival isn't your own fault.