Anytime Short Returns

[lyndhurst25]

I see that two of my regular commuting tickets, Liverpool to Colne and Liverpool to Lancaster, have just been changed from Anytime Returns (SOR) to Anytime Short Returns (SHR). Not sure why????

I'm not familiar with using this relatively new ticket type. The outward portion is supposed to be only valid for one day but what happens if you "cannot" complete your outward journey in one day? Can you break journey overnight and continue on the second day, as with the outward portion of Off Peak Returns?

 

[janb]

Change from SOR to SHR presumably for revenue reasons, to reduce reuse of tickets.

Overnight break of journey would be the same as with SVRs as well.

 

[scrapy]

Outward portion apparently has to be completed by 0429 on the day after purchase.
Return portion can be used anytime within 1 month or up until 0429 on the following day.
No break of journey restrictions

They were brought in due to the amount of misuse of Anytime returns and the fact that very few people would genuinely not be able to complete their journey on the same day.

 

[furlong]

Nobody seems to have told the National Rail Enquiries website about these tickets yet.
If you take http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46544.aspx as the definitive terms and conditions for Anytime tickets as claimed, "Short" has no effect on validity. (That's the page you get if you search the site for Anytime Short Return or follow the menu.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They were brought in due to the amount of misuse of Anytime returns and the fact that very few people would genuinely not be able to complete their journey on the same day.

Sorry, but that's not what the TOCs told the public about their intentions.

The trial of these tickets last year purported to "give customers increased choice by offering a period Anytime return for use in the peak on short distance flows where traditionally only a Day ticket was available. This then provides both period options for Peak and Off Peak Travel." (FOI?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The trial of these tickets last year purported to "give customers increased choice by offering a period Anytime return for use in the peak on short distance flows where traditionally only a Day ticket was available. This then provides both period options for Peak and Off Peak Travel."

To be fair, that misuse is why many short-distance flows *don't* have Anytime Returns.

TBH I doubt many people are affected by this restriction - most people do not do overnight BoJ.

 

[John @ home]

I doubt many people are affected by this restriction

That may well have been the case if Anytime Short Returns had been restricted to distances up to 40 miles.

But I'm discovering many of these tickets for much longer distances. The longest I've found so far is 185 miles each way, of which 75 miles is currently spent on two buses: £59.50 Anytime Short Return (SHR) Micklefield - Galashiels via Carlisle + Bus Route via Appleby.

 

[fandroid]

Don't forget that an overnight stop if the outward journey cannot be completed ( for any reason) in one day is not a 'break of journey' as covered by the conditions of carriage. It would be very odd if the same conditions did not apply to these Short Anytime Returns as apply to Offpeak Returns. The only condition is that the journey portion must be completed on the following day on trains that fit the ticket restrictions (and for an anytime ticket there are no time restrictions).

 

[Paul Kelly]

Don't forget that an overnight stop if the outward journey cannot be completed ( for any reason) in one day is not a 'break of journey' as covered by the conditions of carriage.

It's not, no, but ticket validity is a separate thing from break of journey restrictions and if the ticket validity expires at 04:29, you can't continue travelling after then, no matter whether the journey could reasonably have been completed the night before or not. The validity of the outward portions of these tickets could really do with being clarified.

In an interesting counter to this trend of shorter outward validity, I've noticed that the TPE Club 55 return tickets (available from 19th September until 20th November) have a very generous 1 month validity on the outward as well as the return portions: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=YRK&dest=NCL&rte=85&tkt=55S&start=20160919

 

[lyndhurst25]

I can't see how they are going to help revenue collection by preventing ticket reuse. All the dishonest serial ticket reuser needs do is to buy two SHRs in opposite directions and use the return portions as their monthly season!

If, as seems to be implied, the outward portions of these new Anytime Short Returns are not valid for travel on the second day, then we are now in the ridiculous situation where the Anytime ticket has harsher break-of-journey restrictions than the Off Peak equivalent. Madness.

The conversion of the SORs that I used to buy into SHRs certainly hasn't given this customer "increased choice". Just more restrictions brought in by the back door.

 

[scrapy]

Nobody seems to have told the National Rail Enquiries website about these tickets yet.
If you take http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46544.aspx as the definitive terms and conditions for Anytime tickets as claimed, "Short" has no effect on validity. (That's the page you get if you search the site for Anytime Short Return or follow the menu.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Sorry, but that's not what the TOCs told the public about their intentions.

The trial of these tickets last year purported to "give customers increased choice by offering a period Anytime return for use in the peak on short distance flows where traditionally only a Day ticket was available. This then provides both period options for Peak and Off Peak Travel." (FOI?)

TOCS don't always tell the public their true intentions. They tell the public what they want to hear and what sounds good. Northern under Serco Abellio told the public this time last year that they were getting lots of extra seats when really they were mostly getting services put back to levels they were before Farnworth tunnels shut but it sounds good to put a positive spin on it. The Anytime short returns certainly don't provide the public any more choice as they are not on new flows they are on flows which used to have anytime returns.

 

[bb21]

Replacement of SORs by SHRs is no doubt an erosion of passenger rights. If they were so worried about misuse, how about better enforcement and revenue protection activities for a change?

Where SHRs were introduced as an additional fare, it is to be welcomed.

 

[Greeby]

Thing is, these fares are cropping up in the north, which already has plenty of SOR fares that are not insanely-priced. Yet, no sign of them down in the Network area where they are sorely needed.

Sadly I'm not surprised that this is being used to erode the number of days' validity. When Ordinary Returns became Open Returns, it went from three months to one month. No doubt with no corresponding reduction in price.

 

[janb]

I can't see how they are going to help revenue collection by preventing ticket reuse. All the dishonest serial ticket reuser needs do is to buy two SHRs in opposite directions and use the return portions as their monthly season!

You and I know that, and one would hope those in charge of revenue protection do as well. I suppose the change means people may buy 2 tickets instead of 1 at least.

I take Indigo2's point about validity, I had blithely assumed they would not give an Anytime ticket fewer rights than a Off Peak.

On the Club 55 thing when they are issued they only have 1 day outward validity.