Anything to complain about?

[Pete81E]

Just got back from a week in Switzerland with my wife and two kids aged 12 and 11 (full trip report hopefully to follow).

Went out via Eurostar to Brussels and then ICE to Cologne for an overnight stay on Fri 5th. We were informed that due to a train defect on the Cologne-Brussels ICE coming the other way it could not continue so we were going to stop at Duren and exchange trains, with the faulty one going back to Cologne. We duly got off, walked across the platform at Duren and after a few minutes the other train arrived. Bit of a scrum with two fairly full ICE sets of passengers and luggage trying to work past each other, and with the two trains being in different formation (we were in First Class). A bit inconvenient but pretty efficient on the whole and only a 12 minute delay. Oh well, these things happen...

So, yesterday Sat 13th we were booked on a single ticket DB First Class Europa Special Belgien from Basel Bad to Brussels on ICE1108 Basel to Cologne and ICE14 Cologne to Brussels. First leg went smoothly. ICE14 arrival was +5 into Cologne. We left, and were informed that due to a train defect the max speed was limited to 160 km/h and a late arrival of approx. 30 minutes in Brussels was expected. Well, OK, no problem I'd allowed a fair bit of contingency for things like this.

A little later we were informed that the train could not continue and would be terminated at Aachen, where we should catch the RE to Liege and Brussels. Again, sounded OK. Then a further announcement that our connection would be a local service to Welkenraedt for an onward IC connection to Brussels. Well, getting a little concerned now... So we alight at platform 9 and wait for the train which will arrive on the opposite platform 8. The ICE14 was pretty full. Our onward connection arrives and it is a 2-car unit #237!
That was booked to leave at 16:35 and after cramming about 70%? of the passengers on left a few minutes late. I don't know what kind of journey they had from that point, but we never had a chance to even try and get on (not that I would have wanted to).

So, checking the departures I can see a 17:23 Thalys to Brussels which was due to arrive at 18:32. Still in plenty of time. Was just about to try and find someone to ask about this when it was announced that the next connection was indeed the 17.23 Thalys. So we queue for the lift with our two heavy suitcases and toddle across to platform 7 for the 40 minute wait. First class is at the front so that is where we go. We get on and find the few remaining seats, along with several other ICE14 passengers. Then the guard comes in and tells us quite rudely that if we have come from ICE14 our ticket is not valid in First Class as it is with a different company and tells us we will have to move. So we get off the train and lug all our stuff along the platform, to 2nd class, which predictably is now wedged and we just have to jump into an already crowded vestibule. Off we go.

Thanks are now due at this point to an extremely grumpy Belgian toddler, who was kicking up such a racket and wouldn't sit still, so his dad had to carry him up and down the carriage to placate him. This at least meant the kids got a seat for most of the journey, until Belgian dad's patience/legs ran out and he had to sit down again. Thank you, whoever you were! My wife and I stood with the herd in the vestibule. Arrival was on time and we caught our 19.52 Eurostar back to London comfortably.

So, my question is: Do I have anything to complain about? It was certainly very inconvenient and a really horrible journey but do you think I have any grounds for complaining, and if you do who would you recommend I complain to? DB, Thalys (surely the guard might have relaxed the restrictions given he was fully aware of the situation?), Railteam? I'm not really the complaining type, but would welcome more experienced opinions.

Pete

 

[185]

You do. For the mess, inconvenience and mistreatment, I'd ask for a 100% refund off DB for not providing a working train in the first place. Dumping their passengers off at Aachen, and expecting other train companies to bail them out, they should have secured onward travel properly for you, by re-ticketing passengers.

Had a similar problem at Aachen before with German Thalys staff, who claimed a train was full all the way to Paris, and I could not travel beyond Bruxelles Midi. Noticing a crew change at Bruxelles, I approached the new staff and the Belgian guard stuck me in first class and apologised about, quote "the other idiot" !!?! I tried to decline the free meal and wine, but I was told by the stewardess it was 'complements of the train manager'.

 

[IR-Mark4/ICR]

You have plenty to complain about and a full refund should be on the cards.

Thats the type of service we provide over in Ireland but without refunds and I would of expected much more from a German rail operator.

 

[valedave]

As far as I can see, you didn't arrive late at your final destination, is that correct?

You're only officially entitled to a refund from DB if you're more than an hour late in reaching your destination. All that Thalys nonsense was unfortunate and, by the look of things, very badly organised, but I don't see any grounds for an official refund.

You could, of course, write to DB and explain your extremely uncomfortable journey and see what happens.

Similar thing happened to me - missed connection onto the ICE International in Köln, along with a host of other travellers. We were directed to coach 9 of next Thalys as this was "unreserved", which turned out to be nonsense (it was fully booked, and I think Thalys even has obligatory reservations so there is no "unreserved coach") so we had to stand the whole way to Brussels.

 

[Oscar]

Unfortunately this kind of experience is very common on routes between Belgium and Germany/the Netherlands. DB do not have enough 406 sets (4 system ICE 3 units which can run into Belgium, the Netherlands and France) and so often have to use 403s (normal ICE 3 trains) between Frankfurt and Köln/Aachen and TGVs have stood in for 406s on the Frankfurt - Paris route in the past. Outright cancellations also seem quite common. Unfortunately general organisation and information given to passengers and staff seems very poor and staff often do not know what is going on or different staff are given different information. "Technical problems" is often given as a reason when in fact the problem is a lack of 406s. Fortunately DB has ordered 16 new four system 407s from Siemens which are about to be delivered and should have been delivered earlier. The situation should therefore improve but the poor communications leave a lot to be desired.

For reference, the DB delay compensation form is here (German) or here (English) but is not relevant to your journey.

 

[317666]

Unfortunately this kind of experience is very common on routes between Belgium and Germany/the Netherlands. DB do not have enough 407 sets (4 system ICE 3 units which can run into Belgium, the Netherlands and France) and so often have to use 403s (normal ICE 3 trains) between Frankfurt and Köln/Aachen and TGVs have stood in for 407s on the Frankfurt - Paris route in the past.

The current four-system ICE-3s are 406s, and you're right the problem is the lack of new 407s which were meant to be in service last year. Some domestic ICEs were, and still are, replaced by extra ICs at short notice which leads to delay due to the much slower top speed.

A quick look on http://www.zugfinder.de/ shows that ICE 14 has only been less than five minutes late 65.3% of the time over the last 100 days, so unfortunately things like this are a lot more common than they should be. The last time it ran on time was last Tuesday, with technical problems with either the train or the track being the main delay reasons. Hopefully when all of the new 407s are in service, things should settle down a bit.

 

[Oscar]

The current four-system ICE-3s are 406s, and you're right the problem is the lack of new 407s which were meant to be in service last year. Some domestic ICEs were, and still are, replaced by extra ICs at short notice which leads to delay due to the much slower top speed.

Thank you for the correction - I have amended the post. I have also noticed ICEs being replaced by ICs - is this because the domestic ICE sets have to cover sections of the 406 services within Germany or is it due to winter related issues?

A quick look on http://www.zugfinder.de/ shows that ICE 14 has only been less than five minutes late 65.3% of the time over the last 100 days, so unfortunately things like this are a lot more common than they should be.

This figure for ICE 16, 17 and 19 is less than 60%. Today's service already has ICE 16 cancelled between Köln Hbf and Bruxelles-Midi, the following Thalys delayed by 35 minutes and ICE 14 starting the journey from Frankfurt Hbf 10 minutes late.

 

[radamfi]

The current four-system ICE-3s are 406s, and you're right the problem is the lack of new 407s which were meant to be in service last year. Some domestic ICEs were, and still are, replaced by extra ICs at short notice which leads to delay due to the much slower top speed.

Are DB now running many more ICE trains than they did before December?

 

[317666]

Thank you for the correction - I have amended the post. I have also noticed ICEs being replaced by ICs - is this because the domestic ICE sets have to cover sections of the 406 services within Germany or is it due to winter related issues?

I think it's due to the late delivery of the 407s, DB were hoping to run extra trains over the Christmas period but ended up not having enough ICEs available to do so. I read that Siemens were kind enough to provide 100 extra maintenance staff to keep the existing ICE fleets as reliable as possible over Christmas, to help reduce the amount of ICE services which had to be replaced by ICs. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!

According to the German Wikipedia article about the 407s, DB don't expect all 16 of them to be ready for service until the end of 2016 at the earliest, so this might be going on for a while.

 

[Pete81E]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

We did arrive late at our final destination with DB on that ticket, it's just lucky that I'd allowed extra time in Brussels which absorbed the delay. Eurostar was booked and ticketed separately. But DB didn't know what my onward plans were after Brussels.

Actually, ICE14 is timed to arrive at 17:35 and I suspect that the Thalys must have been a few minutes down on booked arrival time of 18:32 due to all the fuss at Aachen so I will try the official complaint route (thanks for the link, Oscar) as we were almost certainly over 60 minutes delayed. I'll let you know what response I get.

Thanks again,
Pete

 

[Oscar]

If you were delayed by over 60 minutes you have a right to 25% of the single fare in compensation. For international journeys the compensation is only payable as a bank transfer and can only be dealt with at the Fahrgastrechte centre (at least according to Nürnberg Hbf ticket office staff).