anyone with a bus licence who now works outside the industry

[34D]

Driver CPC has now come in. I was at a meeting the other day, when it was basically agreed that everyone is perilously short of drivers, due to CPC coming in.

If anyone has a bus licence but doesn't currently use it, can I tempt you to finish whatever CPC hours you need, and offer your services to your local small coach or bus company one day a week?

If you have a bus or truck licence, you can check what CPC is logged against your name at https://www.gov.uk/check-your-driver-cpc-periodic-training-hours

 

[High Dyke]

Ooh...i may have a problem then. Haven't done any part-time driving for about 4 - 5 years now; and i've never done any CPC training.

 

[SWTH]

Out of curiousity where are there staff shortages? Where I work we're overstaffed, as are the other local companies.

 

[455driver]

I drove buses for 18 years but left before all this CPC nonsense came in, I am now deemed to be unable to drive any bus because I lack a bit of paper with a tickbox exercise on it.

The CPC was just another way of creating jobs in the public sector and getting somebody else to pay for those jobs, in this case bus companies.

 

[CatfordCat]

I haven't got round to doing mine yet - although I did take the precaution of asking DSA what the form would be, as I didn't want to be in a position where I was treated as if I'd never held a PCV licence, which I thought might just be the case.

I don't drive professionally, and since I'm due an age related medical renewal soon, I thought I'd get that out of the way first as didn't want to fork out for the CPC if the doctors found something nasty in a couple of months.

They confirmed to me (and I have it on paper) that it would simply be a case of taking 5 days' CPC training before I can drive professionally again.

It's also worth noting that you don't need CPC to drive a bus in some circumstances, e.g. if it's a genuinely free service for which you're not getting paid at a 'bus running day' type event (i also asked this and got it confirmed this on paper, as this is something I do occasionally.)

I believe that (for example) bus company engineering staff who occasionally drive buses on the public highway but not in passenger service also don't need CPC. (although I'm less sure of this and didn't ask the question as this is pretty unlikely to apply to me.)

Obviously all the above does not constitute 'legal advice' on my part.

I'm not convinced there is a severe driver shortage nationally - there may be a shortage of semi-retired drivers who only do a few hours a day on schools work, anecdotal evidence suggests a fair proportion of this sort of driver hasn't done the CPC thing and have retired fully.

As things are at the moment, if an operator is continually short of staff, to me, it either tells you something about the local labour market, or about that operator...

 

[notadriver]

I completed my DCPC back in July and proudly hold a DCPC card. I've used it to do a couple of 5 day tours as I'm a tour coach driver but I do occasionally help out with day trips if I have the time and rest periods are adhered to etc.

My problem is all the decent paying coach companies are some distance away and any extra they pay would be wiped out in additional fuel and time to get there. So my choices on rest day(s) off are to either work a shift of up to 12 hours on the coaches for a flat rate of £60 (unchanged since 2006), or potentially try another company further away and get treated like poo by the management / other drivers or do a 9 hour train shift and get 4 times what the coach driving pays for less actual work. A difficult one .....

 

[richw]

up to 12 hours on the coaches for a flat rate of £60 (unchanged since 2006),

This is considerably below minimum wage and has been since 2005. In October 2005 it was increased to £5.05 an hour,

Minimum pre tax you should be earning is £6.31 an hour as of 1/10/13 (approx. £75 for 12 hours)

 

[notadriver]

This is considerably below minimum wage and has been since 2005. In October 2005 it was increased to £5.05 an hour,

Minimum pre tax you should be earning is £6.31 an hour as of 1/10/13 (approx. £75 for 12 hours)

I think they get around it by only paying for the time I drive. A 12 hour shift might include 5 hours waiting around. Common practice in the coach industry.

 

[34D]

Out of curiousity where are there staff shortages? Where I work we're overstaffed, as are the other local companies.

Yorkshire. Half a dozen of the 'better' independents are struggling. No idea about the big names.

 

[kylemore]

As regards the title of the thread - I WISH! lol

I have a manual PCV with driver CPC (a money making scheme for govt with no merit whatsoever) and when I really need to I hold my nose and take a bus driving job, but only until I can get a proper job.

As an old friend of mine who worked as an Inspector but got out as soon as he could after de-regulation was fond of saying the Bus Industry is a "Slum" Industry!

If there is a Driver shortage I'm glad, I hope it gets worse.

 

[notadriver]

What is a slum industry ?

On a side note I see some bus companies in the Midlands and Yorkshire are offering £10+ per hour for existing pcv license holders and new entrants go up to that rate after 6 months so maybe things are changing ?

I can't see a coach drivers lot improving to be honest

 

[Carlisle]

I think they get around it by only paying for the time I drive. A 12 hour shift might include 5 hours waiting around. Common practice in the coach industry.

Don't a lot of bus companies do the same thing ? Not paying break time or turnaround time at bus stations etc

 

[34D]

Don't a lot of bus companies do the same thing ? Not paying break time or turnaround time at bus stations etc

The couple of companies I do bits at do. One knocks off 45 minutes (though the actual break may be upto 3 hours, which is mostly paid) and the other pays hourly rate from clock-on to clock-off.

At the coach companies, a flat daily rate is still common. If £60 covers driving 2 hours there and 2 hours back, with 6 hours in London (or wherever) then £15 an hour is fair.

 

[driver9000]

I don't have CPC and don't intend to get it. I have better things to do than drive a bus about on my day off - buses are in my past now and there I hope they stay.

I have some fond memories of my time on the buses but I consider my PCV to be expired now.


As for the shortage of staff I'm not sure if there really is one. The training schools I knew seemed to be a permanently revolving door of recruits, the problem the bus industry has is retention of drivers. I lost count of the number of drivers who would pass their test and be gone 3 months later, the garage I was at has had countless drivers come and go in the time since I left with very few left that I actually worked with. CPC was supposed to raise the standard of bus driving and reinstate a sense of professionalism that had maybe gone by the wayside but I'm not sure if it has worked.

 

[GearJammer]

A few missing bus services due to lack of drivers is'nt really gonna upset anyone is it.....

Can't wait untill Sep 2014 when this comes in for the truckers coz the people that crunch the numbers seem to think that not enough truckers have started their training an its impossible for them all to get the training in by the deadline.....

Coupled to the fact that a large proportion of truckers are approaching or past retirement age then i think interesting times are to be had beyond Sep 2014, stock your cubards up, coz the shelves in the shops could run dry.

 

[notadriver]

A few missing bus services due to lack of drivers is'nt really gonna upset anyone is it.....

And yet a shortage of trains due to lack of drivers seems to affect people a lot more!

Can't wait untill Sep 2014 when this comes in for the truckers coz the people that crunch the numbers seem to think that not enough truckers have started their training an its impossible for them all to get the training in by the deadline.....

Coupled to the fact that a large proportion of truckers are approaching or past retirement age then i think interesting times are to be had beyond Sep 2014, stock your cubards up, coz the shelves in the shops could run dry.

Oooh maybe I should get my C+E. Apart from the cost will it be very different to the rigid coach I'm used to driving ?

 

[kylemore]

What is a slum industry ?

An industry where Standards are non-existent, where utter contempt for the workers by management is the norm, where "Professionalism" by said "management" a collection of chancers, crooks and incompetents is also non-existent. An industry with no pride and indeed whose managers would look at you as if you were from another planet if you were to suggest such a thing was possible (Real "Pride" not the usual cynical corporate waffle and pangloss).

Outside of London and outside of major urban centres like Edinburgh where people have no alternative the Network only survives due to generous and increasingly unaffordable "Entitlement" Cards, (essentially the industry survives on State Charity with political favour being bought by the biggest groups) if the cards where withdrawn the network would collapse - normal people just don't use buses any more if they can possibly help it.

Carryings must be a fraction of what they were in the 1970s never mind the 1950s, and frankly I would disbelieve any "Statistics" that said otherwise!

In short an Industry to get out of at the earliest opportunity.

 

[richw]

A few missing bus services due to lack of drivers is'nt really gonna upset anyone is it.....

Can't wait untill Sep 2014 when this comes in for the truckers coz the people that crunch the numbers seem to think that not enough truckers have started their training an its impossible for them all to get the training in by the deadline.....

Coupled to the fact that a large proportion of truckers are approaching or past retirement age then i think interesting times are to be had beyond Sep 2014, stock your cubards up, coz the shelves in the shops could run dry.

And on the other hand a friend of mine cant find work other than for agencies calling him as required. He is constantly looking for full time work.

 

[FlamTap]

As regards the title of the thread - I WISH! lol

I have a manual PCV with driver CPC (a money making scheme for govt with no merit whatsoever) and when I really need to I hold my nose and take a bus driving job, but only until I can get a proper job.

As an old friend of mine who worked as an Inspector but got out as soon as he could after de-regulation was fond of saying the Bus Industry is a "Slum" Industry!

If there is a Driver shortage I'm glad, I hope it gets worse.

Well said! The UK haulage industry is the same.

 

[SWTH]

An industry where Standards are non-existent, where utter contempt for the workers by management is the norm, where "Professionalism" by said "management" a collection of chancers, crooks and incompetents is also non-existent. An industry with no pride and indeed whose managers would look at you as if you were from another planet if you were to suggest such a thing was possible (Real "Pride" not the usual cynical corporate waffle and pangloss).

Outside of London and outside of major urban centres like Edinburgh where people have no alternative the Network only survives due to generous and increasingly unaffordable "Entitlement" Cards, (essentially the industry survives on State Charity with political favour being bought by the biggest groups) if the cards where withdrawn the network would collapse - normal people just don't use buses any more if they can possibly help it.

Carryings must be a fraction of what they were in the 1970s never mind the 1950s, and frankly I would disbelieve any "Statistics" that said otherwise!

In short an Industry to get out of at the earliest opportunity.

I totally agree.

 

[34D]

I don't agree, though I don't want to get into a silly argument.

I will acknowledge that there is a minority of staff (drivers and management) that are as he describes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And on the other hand a friend of mine cant find work other than for agencies calling him as required. He is constantly looking for full time work.

Whereabouts in the country does he live, could he relocate, and does he have HGV or PSV?

 

[KendalKing]

Driver CPC has now come in. I was at a meeting the other day, when it was basically agreed that everyone is perilously short of drivers, due to CPC coming in.

If anyone has a bus licence but doesn't currently use it, can I tempt you to finish whatever CPC hours you need, and offer your services to your local small coach or bus company one day a week?

If you have a bus or truck licence, you can check what CPC is logged against your name at https://www.gov.uk/check-your-driver-cpc-periodic-training-hours

I had worked in the bus industry, for over 20-years both as a driver and a manager. I left the industry about 13-months ago.

The reasons for me leaving is not just the driver CPC, but the attitude of the travelling public (When I first started in the industry about 95% of the passengers were nice and pleasant, nowadays only about 5% are pleasant), over road users, and the poor wages. I was on £7ph.

After about 10-months, I decided to go back bus driving on a part-time basis, for my local indenpent operator, who was and still is short of drivers.
After only 5-weeks I left again, for the very same reasons, plus the operator concerned was only paying £6.50ph!

An industry where Standards are non-existent, where utter contempt for the workers by management is the norm, where "Professionalism" by said "management" a collection of chancers, crooks and incompetents is also non-existent. An industry with no pride and indeed whose managers would look at you as if you were from another planet if you were to suggest such a thing was possible (Real "Pride" not the usual cynical corporate waffle and pangloss).

Outside of London and outside of major urban centres like Edinburgh where people have no alternative the Network only survives due to generous and increasingly unaffordable "Entitlement" Cards, (essentially the industry survives on State Charity with political favour being bought by the biggest groups) if the cards where withdrawn the network would collapse - normal people just don't use buses any more if they can possibly help it.

Carryings must be a fraction of what they were in the 1970s never mind the 1950s, and frankly I would disbelieve any "Statistics" that said otherwise!

In short an Industry to get out of at the earliest opportunity.

Well said, couldn't put it better myself.

 

[34D]

I had worked in the bus industry, for over 20-years both as a driver and a manager. I left the industry about 13-months ago.

The reasons for me leaving is not just the driver CPC, but the attitude of the travelling public (When I first started in the industry about 95% of the passengers were nice and pleasant, nowadays only about 5% are pleasant), over road users, and the poor wages. I was on £7ph.

After about 10-months, I decided to go back bus driving on a part-time basis, for my local indenpent operator, who was and still is short of drivers.
After only 5-weeks I left again, for the very same reasons, plus the operator concerned was only paying £6.50ph!



Well said, couldn't put it better myself.

That is a real shame. We need people like you. The job is what you make of it!

 

[SWTH]

Out of curiousity what do you do for a living 34D?

 

[notadriver]

34D do you really think £60 day rate is a decent wage for a coach driver in 2013?!

 

[34D]

Out of curiousity what do you do for a living 34D?

Well the past 3 weeks it's been 6 days a week bus driving. Normally it's 2 or 3 days a week of that and 3 days office work (not transport industry).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

34D do you really think £60 day rate is a decent wage for a coach driver in 2013?!

Not all. I actually set an hourly rate for one of the local companies. £80 or 90 can't remember which

 

[notadriver]

Thanks for your replies 34D. I am reluctant to approach my coach boss for more money. I guess don't like confrontation and I don't exactly have a leg to stand on. I've heard him say to his office staff if drivers don't like it here then they can leave and give someone else a go !

 

[SWTH]

Thanks for your replies 34D. I am reluctant to approach my coach boss for more money. I guess don't like confrontation and I don't exactly have a leg to stand on. I've heard him say to his office staff if drivers don't like it here then they can leave and give someone else a go !

Sadly that does seem to be the prevailing attitude by management in most bus/coach companies. However, they're also aware that pay and conditions elsewhere in the area are unlikely to be much different, which leaves drivers with few (if any) options.

 

[driver9000]

Sadly that does seem to be the prevailing attitude by management in most bus/coach companies. However, they're also aware that pay and conditions elsewhere in the area are unlikely to be much different, which leaves drivers with few (if any) options.

I remember Brian Souter being interviewed once saying "why should I pay my drivers £10 and hour when they'll work for less?"

A fair comment I suppose from him from a business point of view but also highlights the attitudes towards those working in the industry. The professional status of the driver is long gone despite what the companies may say about it on the surface. The bus driver should be seen as a responsible professional by the companies and passengers but more often than not they are under sold and it's hard to raise morale when the workforce changes at a rapid rate. The turnover alone in some garages should raise an eyebrow with those in charge but until application forms stop arriving they'll just keep the revolving door going. A sad state of affairs really as the actual job of driving a bus can be enjoyable.

 

[notadriver]

Well said SWTH and driver9000. I would love to invite 34D, erail and my bus driver colleagues to spend a day with me to see what a day for a main line train driver is like.