Any thoughts on how to build a new station?

[katymellow]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I'm hoping for some help, advice, a straight jacket or anything else you may think is appropriate. I live in Portsmouth, which is a very crowded and congested city. Just down the road is a patch of land, big enough to build a small station, plus some parking if needed. It's next to the track (duh) and if a station was built I'm sure it would ease a lot of the traffic coming into the city. The land is earmarked for housing (which the city also needs) but this particular area is already built up (as is most of the city) and if built the houses would surrounded by existing housing, two roads, including a bridge over the track, and of course the track itself.

Is there any point in me trying to build up support for a station there? Much as I loath the idea of this big society guff, I think this is such a missed opportunity. I know money is very short, but if there's money for the HS link then surely there's money for this?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. You can stop laughing at my daft naivety now............

 

[WatcherZero]

In campaigning for a station the first thing you need it to get the council to commit to a feasability study, these examine whether its practicable in engineering terms, whether it wouldnt be too disruptive to existing services and whether it would be financially beneficial, these cost several hundred thousand pounds upto a couple of million so its a tough thing to get a council to commit to requiring large public support but once you have that you can take a campaign national lobbying for the funds to build and operate the station. In the current economic times it may be even harder so I wish you good luck if you decide to try.

Its a process that even with a good business case can take a decade or more.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Its a great idea. Very sensible and forward thinking. It would be bound to be rejected!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[185]

I think one question to ask for Pompey is what is the proximity to other local stations.... too close together is an immediate nono. Some plans for pompey regularly talked about are a light rail system, and an extension tunnel under the river to Gosport and further extension tunnel to Ryde (IOW). Current financial climate is putting many ideas on hold.

 

[swt_passenger]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I'm hoping for some help, advice, a straight jacket or anything else you may think is appropriate. I live in Portsmouth, which is a very crowded and congested city. Just down the road is a patch of land, big enough to build a small station, plus some parking if needed.

Please tell us exactly where - sometimes you'll find that these places have already had stations and they've since been demolished, such as at Paulsgrove (for the race track?), or at Farlington - which was on the Havant to Hilsea side of the triangle, and closed 1937 IIRC through lack of use...

Sometimes a station was never built although the site was allocated, such as at Copnor Bridge. Notice a Station Rd, Copnor just north of the bridge on the up side, although it was a level crossing when first built...

There is a City Council plan on the back burner to build a new Farlington station, between Sainsburys and the Hilton. Apparently land is reserved for a fair sized park and ride for about 4-500 cars...

 

[katymellow]

Hi again. Thanks for all the positive replies.

The site I'm thinking of is the Copnor Bridge one - it's obvious that a station was thought of at one point. I'm no expert but it seems that there are a lot of positives to the site. It's well placed between Fratton and Hilsea and would service Copnor and Baffins very well.

From what I know about the on/ off plans for LRT, etc it wouldn't be any use to the people who live in this area as I think it would bypass the eastern part of the city.

The cost of feasibility seems prohibitive, especially at the current time, but if left, houses will be built and it would definitely be too late.

I don't want to come across as a housing nimby - I work in social housing - but it just seems short-sighted in the extreme to pass up what looks like an ideal location.

 

[Wyvern]

The cost of feasibility seems prohibitive, especially at the current time, but if left, houses will be built and it would definitely be too late.

You could suggest to the planning department that an area be left clear for possible future transport development. This would possibly prevent any future opportunity being lost.

 

[BestWestern]

So they are finally going to do something with that bowls green, it's about time! I'm guessing that's where you mean, right next to the bridge? Shame they insisted in ripping it up just to park the JCB's on it, I always assumed they needed it for structural changes to the bridge but seemingly not!

A Copnor station is a pretty sensible idea, however I'd have to say that patch of land is a little tight. Traffic and access issues could well generate problems, not least from the locals. There'd be no road access from the other side as the road rises to go over the bridge, so you might end up with chronic traffic issues there? Have you thought about Burrfields Bridge? There is already track-level access from the Copnor Road side, as there used to be a level crossing there, and the van dealership on the Hilsea side has a big yard which extends under the bridge and always seems deserted. The allotments could provide potential expansion space if needed, and it could be arranged so as to be considerate to the housing nearby. Just a thought! I totally agree that a station is needed somewhere along that stretch of line, it's daft that Portsmouth has so many stations within it but none that serve Copnor. Hilsea is no good to the vasy majority as it has such an industrial catchment area. Best of luck with it!

As for Portsmouth's LRT tramway scheme, I think it would be fair to say that it's been and gone really. The tunnel under the harbour would never have worked as it would have needed to be too deep due to the warships and cross channel ferries coming in and out, and a major part of the overall plan was for it to run between Fareham and Gosport on the old railway alignment; this is now being turned into the cheaper option of a guided busway.

 

[katymellow]

Yes, I do mean that patch of land - nicely flat, and I agree, a little tight. I have it on good authority that it will be housing as soon as possible. Anyhoo, I see what you mean about the Burrfields Road bridge site being a possibility and probably much more suitable for local residents, apart from allotment users!

I think, in a city like Pompey, which is so built up that any proposed change would cause major upheaval for residents, negotiation and persuasion is really important, as well as an eye to the future. However, I don't believe that the current city council has the vision or sheer balls to see this as an idea worth pursuing (and I say this as someone who works for the council).

I think initially what I'll do is ask the Transport Dept about the site and whether any surveys or studies have been done (we're supposed to have a sustainable transport strategy and to be pro green transport initiatives - I reckon this qualifies!)

Thanks again

Kate

 

[Clip]

If Chiltern can manager to build Warwick parkway i see no reason why another couldn't be done in the same circumstances elsewhere. And i dont think theirs took all that long from idea to completion

 

[142094]

The problem with any type of new construction project will be funding - even more so in these times of budget cuts. One way that a lot of new opening in England (not including Scotland or Wales due to devolution powers) is through developer contributions. Now this will throw up a whole load of new work trying to find out who owns the land next to the line and if they'd be willing to develop it, let alone allow a station to be built.

Only other way I can think of would be through an exceptional cases bid from the local authority, but again this would be tricky. Portsmouth should be producing a new Local Transport Plan around about now, so you could write in to Portsmouth City Council asking for it to be included. Chances are they will already have a section on rail transport in the last two LTPs.

 

[swt_passenger]

So they are finally going to do something with that bowls green, it's about time! I'm guessing that's where you mean, right next to the bridge?

Are you getting a bit ahead of things? It's an idea for a proposal, not just about to be built...

 

[Matt Taylor]

A station at Copnor has been mentioned before and while it would be great for people who live in the very densely populated areas of the north and east of Portsea I personally feel that the Council (and Hampshire County Council) should be focusing on the LRT scheme as that would provide far greater benefits to far more people and if it was routed properly it would bring much better public transport to Copnor, Milton and North End.

I don't see how a train station at Copnor will get people off buses and cars seeing as fares to Gunwharf are unlikely to be cheaper than the bus and the service is unlikely to be more frequent.

 

[BestWestern]

Are you getting a bit ahead of things? It's an idea for a proposal, not just about to be built...

I refer to the proposed housing development mentioned by the OP, not the station!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A station at Copnor has been mentioned before and while it would be great for people who live in the very densely populated areas of the north and east of Portsea I personally feel that the Council (and Hampshire County Council) should be focusing on the LRT scheme as that would provide far greater benefits to far more people and if it was routed properly it would bring much better public transport to Copnor, Milton and North End.

I don't see how a train station at Copnor will get people off buses and cars seeing as fares to Gunwharf are unlikely to be cheaper than the bus and the service is unlikely to be more frequent.

Well ideally bus and train should compliment one another, not compete. People are unlikely to switch to the train for local journeys such as you mention - unless a situation like the Cosham/Fratton corridor was allowed to exist where most journeys are free :roll: - but it would certainly be beneficial as a whole and at the very least make the commute a lot easier for a lot of people. I think the chances of the LRT ever seeing the light of day are frankly nil, not only is there the recession but the current experiences in Edinburgh to put the council right off the idea! It will certainly never reach Gosport as the whole tunnel idea is impossible unless it dives under a very long way from the Hard/Ferry Gardens, thus missing key stops like Gunwharf or requiring monumentally expensive underground stations. And to come up with worthwhile routes to run it right through Portsmouth would be equally difficult as space is just so tight; where would it go? It's a shame really.

 

[swt_passenger]

I refer to the proposed housing development mentioned by the OP, not the station!

Sorry - misunderstood that...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...I personally feel that the Council (and Hampshire County Council) should be focusing on the LRT scheme as that would provide far greater benefits to far more people and if it was routed properly it would bring much better public transport to Copnor, Milton and North End.

SHRT/LRT has gone the way of the Dodo, Matt. Or maybe Monty Python's dead parrot.

Phase 1 Fareham to Gosport to Portsmouth - refused by the government - now under construction as a bus lane.
Phase 2 Portsmouth to Waterlooville - Hants CC gave up on this after phase 1was turned down - already respecified and built as a bus lane.
Phase 3 Conversion of Netley line to light rail - never likely, and now Network Rail have confirmed they can't allow it as the route is needed for heavy rail services, which have increased in recent years.

I don't think any of the relevant local authorities are actively looking at LRT nowadays.