Any remaining real PAYG Mobile Providers?

[Lucan]

What is the justification for standing or minimum charges for mobile phone services? Unlike a land line, there can only be a tiny amount of infrastructure dedicated to each customer (a few bytes of data) and all the rest of the infrastructure (masts, computers, telecommunication hardware, admin etc) is shared. So why isn't the cost simply in proportion to customers' usage?

It used to be that way. You would simply top up the SIM when the credit ran low. The credit did not expire and there was no monthly charge or minimum. It was true PAYG.

Since then a minimum charge per month has taken over. The providers still claim they offer PAYG but it is not - it is a short term (eg one month) contract as opposed to a long term contract. Wording aside, it means if you only make one or two calls a month like I do, it typically costs £5 or £10 per call. If being switched on uses some of their badwidth, well my phone is only switched on for about an hour per week.

My first phones had true PAYG SIMs, but last year I bought a new smartphone and asked for a PAYG SIM with it, on which I put £10 credit. I made one brief test call to Mrs L from the shop counter (EE). About 5 weeks later I tried to make the first call since the day I bought it and was taken aback to find my credit had gone, because what I had really bought was a month of association with EE. For £10 I had made no useful call at all. No wonder the phone companies are rich.

Are there any providers still offering true PAYG? The nearest I have found is 1pMobile; they require you to spend at least £10 on calls in 120 days, a bit over £3 per month, or you drop off their system.

The car analogy is any petrol in your tank suddenly evaporating away after each month if you had not topped up meanwhile. When I mention this to most people they look blank - they spend half their life on the phone so it is a non-issue for them, and I am subsidising them so they don't mind. No politician sees the problem either of course.

 

[PeterC]

Three still honour existing PAYG accounts but I don't know if you can get a new SIM on those terms.

 

[DelW]

When I first got a smartphone in around 2015, I switched to Three because their PAYG credit for data didn't expire after a month, unlike O2 that I was with previously. That's still the case now, though they did hike the data price from 1p per Mb to 5p per Mb a little while ago. It's still decent value as long as you're careful to avoid websites with embedded video and suchlike. I used to put on £20 credit about twice a year, now it's about every two or three months. Most of that is for data and occasional SMS texts, since I rarely make voice calls on it.

 

[GusB]

You can still order prepay SIM from 3. I stopped using mine when they hiked the prices from 3p/min, 2p/text and 1p/Mb to 10p, 10p and 5p respectively. Credit doesn't expire, as far as I remember.

Current price guides are here:

https://www.three.co.uk/terms-conditions/price-guides

I was annoyed as my usage was very low and I only ever topped up with a tenner every couple of months. I've since taken on a 30 day rolling contract with iD (they use the 3 network) which costs me £7 a month for 6GB data with unlimited calls and texts.

Price comparison websites should allow you to search for PAYG deals, but I suspect they're less popular these days as SIM only contracts can be quite competitive.

 

[Lucan]

I am restricted to EE, or providers piggy-backing on EE, because I only get EE reception where I am. I have since done more research and find that 1pMobile and RWG are the only reasonable choices for me, and in fact RWG has no minimum monthly fee at all. You just need to make one call about every 6 months (or something like that), just to show you are still in the land of the living I suppose.

However, RWG's website is not working properly so I can't get a SIM from them. It also demanded that I open an account with PayPal even though I chose to pay by Mastercard. Mrs L watches Martin Lewis's TV money programs and co-incidentally he was recommending RWG only yesterday, so I expect they have been overwhelmed with new customers right now. Just my luck

 

[Ashley Hill]

I have an O2 PAYG phone. On it I have a favourite places option where as long as I top up £10 a month and call from within my favourite place (my postcode area) I have 500 free mins to call any O2 or BT number. Outside the area I’m charged at normal rates. However if I don’t use my credit it rolls over so when I top up again to reset the offer whatever credit is left is added.

 

[northwichcat]

as long as I top up £10 a month

If you're topping up £10 every month then perhaps you don't really need a PAYG option. I understand there's other factors to consider, like being able to pass a credit check and minimum terms for some contracts.

 

[Darandio]

I have an O2 PAYG phone. On it I have a favourite places option where as long as I top up £10 a month and call from within my favourite place (my postcode area) I have 500 free mins to call any O2 or BT number. Outside the area I’m charged at normal rates. However if I don’t use my credit it rolls over so when I top up again to reset the offer whatever credit is left is added.

That sounds like an incredibly bad deal, specifically the element of requiring you to make a call from a certain location just to receive 500 minutes that are only limited to calls to a certain network.

There are multiple 'PAYG' offers from other providers that will give you those 500 minutes to call any network/landline, unlimited texts and several gigabytes of data for the same £10.

 

[Bungle73]

I'm with Giffgaff, and I buy one of their goody bags every month for £6, which gives me 1GB of data and unlimited calls and texts. I moved from Three a while ago, because it was a better deal, and the coverage was better (they use the O2 network).

 

[bavvo]

What is the justification for standing or minimum charges for mobile phone services? Unlike a land line, there can only be a tiny amount of infrastructure dedicated to each customer (a few bytes of data) and all the rest of the infrastructure (masts, computers, telecommunication hardware, admin etc) is shared. So why isn't the cost simply in proportion to customers' usage?

It used to be that way. You would simply top up the SIM when the credit ran low. The credit did not expire and there was no monthly charge or minimum. It was true PAYG.

Since then a minimum charge per month has taken over. The providers still claim they offer PAYG but it is not - it is a short term (eg one month) contract as opposed to a long term contract. Wording aside, it means if you only make one or two calls a month like I do, it typically costs £5 or £10 per call. If being switched on uses some of their badwidth, well my phone is only switched on for about an hour per week.

Actually the opposite is true.

It costs a huge amount of money to build and maintain the mobile network. You have a massive number of towers and transceivors that have to be spread out over the whole country, including very remote areas. This takes a high capital cost to build (which requires repayment plus interest), and a lot of energy to run, and a lot of constant maintainance and upgrades to keep it up to date. This means there is a constant high level of outgoing costs that must be constantly paid for. Even if you are using the network very very rarely you still have to have that entire network running 24/7 by 365 without fail. The marginal cost of any individual call is miniscule compared to the running costs to keep it all available for the rare occasions you do need to use it.
The upshot of this is there really is a perferctly justified minimum charge that all users should pay to keep the network running. If you are paying less than this then effectively your usage is being subsidised by everyone else.

 

[Non Multi]

Pete Forman's PAYG (Pay as you go) tariff table: https://payg.pythonanywhere.com/

 

[Lucan]

It costs a huge amount of money to build and maintain the mobile network. You have a massive number of towers and transceivors that have to be spread out over the whole country, including very remote areas. This takes a high capital cost to build

I am aware of that. My point is that the cost should be paid for by the users in the proportion in which they use it. Using my my petrol analogy, the fuel industry also has enormous costs in drilling wells, building super-tankers to transport it, roadside petrol stations to run etc. But surely you don't expect Esso etc to demand you pay a minimum amount each month for fuel you don't need? The costs of their enterprise, both capital and running, is paid for in the payments you make to them for the fuel you actually use. They seem to do perfectly well out of it, as do the phone companies, even back in the days of the traditional PAYG when the towers had not long been built.

 

[johncrossley]

What is the justification for standing or minimum charges for mobile phone services? Unlike a land line, there can only be a tiny amount of infrastructure dedicated to each customer (a few bytes of data) and all the rest of the infrastructure (masts, computers, telecommunication hardware, admin etc) is shared. So why isn't the cost simply in proportion to customers' usage?

It used to be that way. You would simply top up the SIM when the credit ran low. The credit did not expire and there was no monthly charge or minimum. It was true PAYG.

Since then a minimum charge per month has taken over. The providers still claim they offer PAYG but it is not - it is a short term (eg one month) contract as opposed to a long term contract. Wording aside, it means if you only make one or two calls a month like I do, it typically costs £5 or £10 per call. If being switched on uses some of their badwidth, well my phone is only switched on for about an hour per week.

Where does it say you need to top up every month?

https://ee.co.uk/content/dam/ee-help/help-pdfs/price-plans/payg/pay-as-you-go-standard-price-guide-180821.pdf

You must make a connection action atleast once every 180 days. If you do not, your SIM card will be disconnected from the network, and you will not be able to use the service at all. You will also lose your mobile phone number. Any credit on your account atthe time of disconnection will be forfeited

• Connection actions’ are: – Making a chargeable outbound call – Sending a text message – Topping up your account – Making a paymentfor an Add-On or Pack – Registering your details

suggests you need to make a "connection action" every 180 days. I have an EE pay as you go mobile as a spare and I put it in my Google Calendar to send a text just before the 180 day limit is up. I therefore keep the phone alive by spending a few pence a year in texts.

 

[CarltonA]

I started PAYG with Orange over twenty years ago and am still using the same account. At one point I was switched over to EE and now I pay 35p a min and 15p for texts. It is optional to use data which has to be bought separately and expires after a set time. When I first went over to a smart phone I unwisely left data switched on and my credit was drained as apps were being updated even though I was not using them. I've a second PAYG phone which is on Tesco and runs on the O2 network. This is a G2 clamshell which is good for great battery life and reception though has limited functionality. I don't see the need to have a contract phone but then I am "songs of praise" as someone on here once insinuated. My phones are switched off most of the time and I am able to function somehow.

 

[johncrossley]

Yes, it sounds like @Lucan was sold a pay as you go SIM card with a one month duration combined data, voice and text package loaded but without any pay as you go credit.

 

[Lucan]

Where does it say you need to top up every month?

https://ee.co.uk/content/dam/ee-hel...pay-as-you-go-standard-price-guide-180821.pdf

It says it on Page 2 of the link. The packages (£5 minimum, £10, etc) have a duration of 30 days. After each 30 days you must pay at least the minimum fee again. It is not a standing charge but it is a minimum charge. It buys call/data time and any unused amount rolls over to the next 30 days, but if like me you make only about 50 pence worth of calls in an average month then you will be wasting at least £4.50 a month, which will amount to £100's over a few years. You cannot get that money back; if you terminate your "association" (I'd call it a "contract" but they don't) with EE, or fail to make the monthly payment, they disable the SIM card by de-allocating its number and they pocket any remaining credit you had. I don't understand why this behaviour is even legal.

I have an EE pay as you go mobile as a spare and .. send a text just before the 180 day limit is up. I therefore keep the phone alive by spending a few pence a year in texts.

You have a traditional PAYG SIM which is not available to new EE customers. You are lucky - that is what I had until I lost my phone last week with one of those SIMs in it. I had it from about 3 years ago. Even so, I had been getting texts lately from EE warning me that if I did not use the phone more (ie spend more money topping it up) they would take my number away (ie kick me out).

 

[david1212]

Needing to be on the EE network is restrictive. I have a PAYG SIM that I must had about 20 years when still one2one. Currently about £4 credit. I have a reminder to send a text every 170 days. I have no idea if EE still sell a traditional PAYG SIM or if all now are 30 day bundles.
Purely by chance if, or realistically when, forced down the path of a low cost monthly package e.g. Giff Gaff or RWG mentioned above a good number to transfer.

Virgin were EE network but swapped to O2 and discontinued PAYG. I lost the balance on my 8p SIM from 10 or so years ago.

As stated autumn 2020 Three 321 went up to 10p/min call, 10p text & 5p/MB data.

I picked up an O2 classic which is 3p/min call, 2p text & 1p/MB data and 180 days credit expiry. Overall better coverage than Three too although that doesn't help the OP. No more are being released but I think if found the last are still within the activation date. Who knows what will happen in the future but O2 traditionally are good for supporting existing users.

 

[johncrossley]

It says it on Page 2 of the link. The packages (£5 minimum, £10, etc) have a duration of 30 days.

Those are optional packages for those who want to use data. If traditional calling credit is no longer available, how do you explain the 35p per minute charge shown on page 1?

 

[Lucan]

If traditional calling credit is no longer available, how do you explain the 35p per minute charge shown on page 1?

Good point, 35 p/min looks re-assuringly expensive, unless it is for existing customers only. They don't make that option very prominent on the EE website. I shall print that out and take it to an EE shop.

My situation is that I lost my phone last week with a traditional PAYG card in it. However I have just found out in my researches that I should tell EE that, although there was only about £5 credit on the SIM. So I have just phoned the EE help line and the guy has suspended the number, and told me I can go into an EE shop and without charge they will give me a new SIM on exactly the same traditional PAYG basis, with my old number and credit restored. That would be good news

 

[jon0844]

While I've not look at PAYG offerings for some time, I thought they all offer a basic PAYG service without the need to buy any sort of bundle - you just pay a lot more for calls/texts/data than applying a pack/bundle. I think some systems default to adding a pack if you add £xx credit, but you can almost always cancel them and revert back to something with no monthly cost (but the need to keep the account active every six months).

As has been said before, even if you don't make lots of calls, assuming the phone isn't off in a glovebox and actually registering on a network and moving from site to site, and being ready to receive calls, texts or data, then there is a cost for you being on the network even if you don't make a single call.

 

[ABB125]

I'm currently on O2's Classic 321 tariff (or whatever it's called), and have been for a few years (prior to switching, I was on some other O2 tariff which was rather more expensive). As the name suggests, this costs 3p/minute, 2p/text, 1p/MB. I make less than one call per month, very few texts. Data I only use for checking things like RealTime Trains when out and about and the train WiFi isn't working. 1p/MB is a huge rip off compared to the prices offered on the expensive contracts you can get (it's basically £10/GB, whereas if you have a £10/month contract, you could easily get 10Gb or even 20GB). But I don't use enough to justify the cost of a contract (yet...). Of course, there's the chicken/egg scenario - if the data was cheaper, I'd use it more... (Though I have the advantage that, unlike most other people my age, I'm not constantly checking SnapFace/WhatsGram/TwitTube etc (yes I know those aren't the actual names... ), every now and then will suffice (for which I can wait until there's WiFi available).
I also have the benefit of having obtained last year a Three SIM card which basically gives you 200MB of free data every month. Completely free. Generally, that's sufficient for my needs. I don't know how easy this is to obtain any more, and it was quite difficult to get it to actually work!

Last summer, there were three consecutive months where I needed far more data than I'd normally use, primarily due to a large number of trips which required use of tracking and mapping apps, and also no WiFi available (quite a few of the trips involved camping. At one campsite, I couldn't get any signal on O2 or Three, and neither could anyone else on the trip (either O2 or (I think) Vodafone). I don't think anyone had EE). So I acquired a SMARTY SIM card (Three network; all their contracts are monthly), which conveniently gave me half price contracts for the first three months. So I had 12GB and unlimited calls/texts for £4/month! (12GB turned out to be rather more than I actually needed; 2GB would have sufficed!).

 

[Harpers Tate]

Just turning this on its head - sort of - here is an alternate consideration for you. Whether it's relevant to you, I don't know.

"if you only make one or two calls a month like I do"
The question (to which I am not personally seeking an answer) is - is that ALL the phone calls you ever make; or is it just those where you use your mobile?
If in fact you make more calls (by other means) then it's possible that "other means" is also costing you - whether per call or for an inclusive package.

If you do make other calls as well, then one option that may work is to cease using (and paying for) that other service and instead make far greater use of those unlimited calls on your mobile that come with whatever deal/goodybag/etc you are "forced" to buy.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm currently on O2's Classic 321 tariff (or whatever it's called), and have been for a few years (prior to switching, I was on some other O2 tariff which was rather more expensive). As the name suggests, this costs 3p/minute, 2p/text, 1p/MB. I make less than one call per month, very few texts.

I've got one of those as a back-up sim, I don't think they are available to new customers though. The great thing about it is you still get access to O2 Priority, which often includes things like a free sausage roll at Greggs or a free hot drink at Cafe Nero.

Another good thing is currently O2 aren't planning to reintroduce roaming charges in EU, so it'll provide a relatively cheap way of using a small amount of data within the EU.

 

[Cdd89]

You have a traditional PAYG SIM which is not available to new EE customers. You are lucky - that is what I had until I lost my phone last week with one of those SIMs in it

Unless things have changed very recently (like in the last two months), traditional SIMs are still available on EE, and are no different from the SIM you bought.

What you bought was a traditional SIM which was pre-configured with a £10 “PACK” — an optional monthly bundle add on, effectively, ready to be activated when you top up. It’s a bit cheeky of them but it is in the small print on the SIM. As soon as you add more than £10 of credit, £10 is deducted and the pack is activated for a month. You can also change it to a pack of a different value, eg £5 or £20.

You can avoid this by simply removing the pack prior to adding the credit. You can do this by texting STOP PACK to 150.

 

[D365]

I'm with Giffgaff, and I buy one of their goody bags every month for £6, which gives me 1GB of data and unlimited calls and texts. I moved from Three a while ago, because it was a better deal, and the coverage was better (they use the O2 network).

I’ve got a rolling deal with Three which gives me 8GB data for £7/mo or 12GB for £8/mo which I found through Uswitch.

 

[david1212]

From a quick look ASDA still openly offer a PAYG SIM 4p/min voice, 4p text 4p/MB data. They piggyback Vodafone so cheaper than Three and better coverage.

I've got one of those (O2 Classic 3p/minute, 2p/text, 1p/MB ) as a back-up sim, I don't think they are available to new customers though. The great thing about it is you still get access to O2 Priority, which often includes things like a free sausage roll at Greggs or a free hot drink at Cafe Nero. ....

Still listed on eBay at 2 for 99p

Unless things have changed very recently (like in the last two months), traditional SIMs are still available on EE, and are no different from the SIM you bought.

What you bought was a traditional SIM which was pre-configured with a £10 “PACK” — an optional monthly bundle add on, effectively, ready to be activated when you top up. It’s a bit cheeky of them but it is in the small print on the SIM. As soon as you add more than £10 of credit, £10 is deducted and the pack is activated for a month. You can also change it to a pack of a different value, eg £5 or £20.

You can avoid this by simply removing the pack prior to adding the credit. You can do this by texting STOP PACK to 150.

That is really sneaky

 

[GusB]

From a quick look ASDA still openly offer a PAYG SIM 4p/min voice, 4p text 4p/MB data. They piggyback Vodafone so cheaper than Three and better coverage.

"Better coverage" is very subjective and depends where you live.

I bought a dual-SIM phone for playing a certain location-based game a few years ago because I found that you don't have to move very far from a populated area for the signal to degrade significantly. My main network was 3 which had decent 3G (and later, 4G) coverage at home, but they stopped their 2G fallback agreement some time ago (I think it was with T-mobile, as was); I bought a pre-pay SIM from Tesco mobile (O2) in order to try to fill the gaps.

That is really sneaky

It isn't, really - it's all about reading the basic terms and conditions. My first PAYG phone was with Orange, many moons ago. I chose it mainly because most of my friends at the time were on Orange (cross-network calls were expensive), and mostly because there wasn't a "line rental" element; I paid x amount per minute/text and that was it.

 

[The Lad]

ASDA and EE still both do pure PAYG sims, min top up £5, make a chargeable call/text every 180 days to retain.

 

[Roger1973]

Someone has mentioned GiffGaff - they do offer real PAYG (more here) - their 'goody bags' may offer better value if you use it a reasonable amount, but they do expire at the end of each month. If you just want a phone to use very occasionally (I have one effectively as an emergency spare) then just adding credit doesn't expire the same way (you do have to use it at least once every few months or it will turn in to a pumpkin - but that can be a single text message. I think they will send you an e-mail to warn you it's about to happen, but don't bank on it.)

I'm not sure what the minimum top-up is on it, I put either 5 or 10 quid on it a few years ago, and haven't got through that yet.

If you know anyone who's already with GG, they do sometimes have offers like you both get a few quid free credit if they refer you.

 

[Lucan]

even if you don't make lots of calls, assuming the phone isn't off in a glovebox and actually registering on a network and moving from site to site, and being ready to receive calls, texts or data, then there is a cost for you being on the network even if you don't make a single call.

I only ever turn my phone on when out and not always then - only a couple of hours a week during covid. For example I went for a hosp appointment last week. I did not turn the phone on until my train got to its destination because during the non-stop journey, even if Mrs L phoned me to say the house was on fire, I could not have done anything about it. I turned it on during the 10 minute taxi ride to the hosp, to check for any missed calls about the house being on fire , but then off again once inside. You get the picture.

But I would not mind paying my share of any cost of being ready to receive calls when it is switched on (which they must be able to detect) because that is logical, 0.0001p per minute or whatever it works out to be.

"if you only make one or two calls a month like I do"
... - is that ALL the phone calls you ever make; or is it just those where you use your mobile?
...
If you do make other calls as well, then one option that may work is to cease using (and paying for) that other service ...

I make calls with my land line on which there is also an always-on router for the internet. I use a full size desktop PC. The mobile reception here is poor anyway.

You can avoid this [automatic monthly top-up, I understand] by simply removing the pack prior to adding the credit. You can do this by texting STOP PACK to 150.

That is very interesting.

ASDA and EE still both do pure PAYG sims, min top up £5, make a chargeable call/text every 180 days to retain.

If that minimum top up is monthly, I would not describe it as pure PAYG. As I average one phone call about every two months, I would be paying £10 per call. A call every 180 days would not be a problem though.