Any chance of fine reduction?

[Venaranglia]

Hello all, I recently got stopped by an inspector for having the wrong ticket which I did (it was booked for a previous station to the one I typically get off at) and gave them my details as requested (was this a mistake?) and after a long wait I finally received the letter (which arrived the day they said was the final day originally, but i’ve managed to hold it at bay while i discuss via email) now they’ve gone through the connected email to my trainline account and found different trips to different stations - some of which were mistakes (e.g. Southend to Rochford instead of Southend to Rayleigh)

The issue i’m having is, I was expecting to pay a fine of 50 which, my mistake, i’ll happily pay. But because my travels differ based on if i’m at work/education (or just out for the day) they’re expecting a total payment of ~£420 (250+175 investigation fee) Is there any way to get the fine reduced? I have no way of really proving I was at X location on a day because none of the places I travel to require me to “clock in”.

Most trips were to Rayleigh from either Southend/ Stratford/Liverpool Street based on where I was, with a variation of singles, returns or smart card weeklies. I also had no railcard at the time. Thank you all!

 

[Snow1964]

Ok, don't panic.

The railway investigators have made assumptions (that you travel the same route between the furthest pair of stations every time). If you genuinely don't eg might be at college one day, an office another, a client third day etc, then you need to tell them, by scheduling the ticket you had and journey you made.

Use the same data, and work out which was genuine, if you can't go back that far, then it's possible to ask for list of journeys (polite request because you go to different places and you want to check it). Others will be along soon and advise.

In meantime try and download your journey history, and compare to your diary, so you have a list of what is correct, and what might be underpaid. But just hold this list until further advice, don't send it in yet.

But it sounds like when you were caught it was a fair cop, if they caught you travelling beyond the ticket you bought. So it is reasonable to expect to pay for this and an admin fee. But don't need to pay again for journeys where you actually had correct ticket.

 

[Spaceship323]

Please can we see all paperwork sent by the train company and also your replies? You said you had no railcard -- did you buy any tickets with a railcard discount?

 

[z444z]

did you buy any tickets with a railcard discount?

This is an important question.

OP you need to go through the list of journeys (if they’ve provided one - if they haven’t, ask for one) and check whether you think you did evade the fare on each occasion or not. If you tell them there are some journeys where you did pay the correct fare they are usually happy to remove these from the amount due, but do not lie. If they suspect you are lying to them this could get a lot worse and they could have additional evidence.

 

[Venaranglia]

Thank you for the replies, none of the tickets were purchased with a railcard, they've all been treated as short fares. Surely they only have evidence of the one singular "short trip" due to the day I was stopped?

Also apologies for the image quality. I literally have no way of getting it higher as that's the quality it was emailed to me in.

 

[z444z]

Thank you for the replies, none of the tickets were purchased with a railcard, they've all been treated as short fares. Surely they only have evidence of the one singular "short trip" due to the day I was stopped?

They don’t need evidence, they’re making you an offer based on what they think you’ve done. You’re free not to take the offer, then they’ll prosecute you. So you probably do want to take the offer. They have all the power here.

 

[AlterEgo]

Well they've caught you habitually short faring there haven't they? Southend Vic (which has barriers) and Prittlewell are about 0.8 miles apart and you can walk it in 15 minutes. And you're paying £4 a pop every time to take a train? Pull the other one. They have ample evidence of you short faring on one occasion and they can prosecute you in the magistrates' court for that offence. Or you can settle and pay the outstanding fares, the ball is in your court here. But don't waste anyone's time claiming these are legitimate, especially when you freely admit you've no evidence to back that up.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello all, I recently got stopped by an inspector for having the wrong ticket which I did (it was booked for a previous station to the one I typically get off at) and gave them my details as requested (was this a mistake?) and after a long wait I finally received the letter (which arrived the day they said was the final day originally, but i’ve managed to hold it at bay while i discuss via email) now they’ve gone through the connected email to my trainline account and found different trips to different stations - some of which were mistakes (e.g. Southend to Rochford instead of Southend to Rayleigh)

The issue i’m having is, I was expecting to pay a fine of 50 which, my mistake, i’ll happily pay. But because my travels differ based on if i’m at work/education (or just out for the day) they’re expecting a total payment of ~£420 (250+175 investigation fee) Is there any way to get the fine reduced? I have no way of really proving I was at X location on a day because none of the places I travel to require me to “clock in”.

Most trips were to Rayleigh from either Southend/ Stratford/Liverpool Street based on where I was, with a variation of singles, returns or smart card weeklies. I also had no railcard at the time. Thank you all!

This isn’t a fine. They are asking you to pay them what they believe you owe them in evaded fares.

Your choice is to provide some reasonable evidence that they will believe that you didn’t evade those fares and they will probably reduce the sum requested.

Or

Pay them the sum requested

Or

Don’t pay them and they will prosecute you for the occasion they can prove. That will result in a guilty verdict, a criminal record and court fines and costs that will probably amount to more than the sum being requested here. If you don’t pay the court bailiffs will come and find you or the court will obtain an attachment of earnings order to obtain the money from your pay or benefits.

 

[methecooldude]

Well they've caught you habitually short faring there haven't they? Southend Vic (which has barriers) and Prittlewell are about 0.8 miles apart and you can walk it in 15 minutes. And you're paying £4 a pop every time to take a train? Pull the other one. They have ample evidence of you short faring on one occasion and they can prosecute you in the magistrates' court for that offence. Or you can settle and pay the outstanding fares, the ball is in your court here. But don't waste anyone's time claiming these are legitimate, especially when you freely admit you've no evidence to back that up.

Absolutely this... with the shown sheets I find

some of which were mistakes (e.g. Southend to Rochford instead of Southend to Rayleigh)

Extremely difficult to believe as well.