Antisocial behaviour on buses: Have we given up?

[BuhSnarf]

Yes it is annoying. If you’ve had a stressful day at work or whatever, it’s reasonable to expect to have a decently peaceful journey home.

I agree with the point that it’s not just young people, your example of old people babbling on about ailments at full volume is just as a antisocial.

If I've had a long day at work then I'll be getting my book out and headphones on to relax, you're never going to have a peaceful ride on a bus with the engine, doors opening/closing, next stop announcements, ticket machine beeps, people stating where they want to go not to add on to that Doris and Dot having a chit chat.

I'm not sure why people expect a local bus to be quiet, a National Express late evening coach sure but a local bus... they're noisy.

 

[Sprinter107]

No body expects a busy bus to be quiet, they never have been. But playing music out loud has never been allowed, and nor should it be. I dont want to be forced to listen to other people's taste in music and media. Its all about being responsible and respectful to others, but many people just think about their own needs, without a care for others. Nor do I want to hear other people's tinny conversations from their speaker phones. Earbuds and headphones should be used.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure why people expect a local bus to be quiet, a National Express late evening coach sure but a local bus... they're noisy.

Noisy with human hubbub and the necessary sounds of operating a bus. Not noisy with music and TikToks being played out loud and speakerphone conversations given how easy it is to avoid those being out loud using the phone as it is designed to be used and a pair of headphones for the music.

It's just plain antisocial. The level to which a few on here seem to be trying to excuse it seems to imply that they too do it - if so, please do stop!

 

[BuhSnarf]

Noisy with human hubbub and the necessary sounds of operating a bus. Not noisy with music and TikToks being played out loud and speakerphone conversations given how easy it is to avoid those being out loud using the phone as it is designed to be used and a pair of headphones for the music.

It's just plain antisocial. The level to which a few on here seem to be trying to excuse it seems to imply that they too do it - if so, please do stop!

I don't want to hear noise from people talking either on their phone or loudly discussing their shopping with their mate sitting next to them, I actually find that worse than music, even if it's crap music.

Whilst I'd love a library quiet bus, I know that's never happening because it's a bus for the public so they'll no doubt make noise so I just wear headphones that block it all out. Problem solved.

 

[Sprinter107]

Taking on a bus, however annoying is not in the conditions of carriage. Playing music out loud is. Its public transport, transport for everyone. Not their personal transport for playing their music out loud at any volume. And as its public transport their are rules or conditions of carriage, which are in place to make everyone's journey bearable. And they should be adhered to.

 

[GusB]

Noisy with human hubbub and the necessary sounds of operating a bus. Not noisy with music and TikToks being played out loud and speakerphone conversations given how easy it is to avoid those being out loud using the phone as it is designed to be used and a pair of headphones for the music.

It's just plain antisocial. The level to which a few on here seem to be trying to excuse it seems to imply that they too do it - if so, please do stop!

Steady on! While some of us don't condemn the playing of music etc. to the same extent as you, it doesn't mean that we're excusing such behaviour and it certainly does not imply that we're doing it too. How dare you jump to such a conclusion.

I view it as a minor irritation and I'm not going to get my drawers in a fankle over it, especially if I'm only on the bus for a short period of time. It can be annoying, I agree, but I'm not going to get too upset about it; it is not the same as condoning the behaviour, though.

 

[duncombec]

Steady on! While some of us don't condemn the playing of music etc. to the same extent as you, it doesn't mean that we're excusing such behaviour and it certainly does not imply that we're doing it too. How dare you jump to such a conclusion.

I view it as a minor irritation and I'm not going to get my drawers in a fankle over it, especially if I'm only on the bus for a short period of time. It can be annoying, I agree, but I'm not going to get too upset about it; it is not the same as condoning the behaviour, though.

Quite!

Some of the posts here are rather overdoing the hyperbole, and seem to show they either live in a very specific area where this sort of behaviour is (unfortunately) both highly concentrated and particularly frequent, have very little experience of travelling by bus, or would rather travel by acoustically-sealed car because heaven forfend someone makes an utterance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite!

Some of the posts here are rather overdoing the hyperbole, and seem to show they either live in a very specific area where this sort of behaviour is (unfortunately) both highly concentrated and particularly frequent, have very little experience of travelling by bus, or would rather travel by acoustically-sealed car because heaven forfend someone makes an utterance.

That playing out loud from devices and the likes is grossly antisocial and should be harshly enforced against is not anything like the latter (though on rail I do indeed think the rule in Quiet Coaches should be absolute silence as per a library). Human hubbub is easy to tune out (the brain is evolved to do so), noise pollution from electronic devices is not.

 

[Tetragon213]

Meanwhile in Japan, absolute silence or the quietest of mutterings is the norm on their public transit. An approach I would love to see rolled out here.

It was absolutely blissful, to be able to travel without the sounds of some idiot playing AI generated rubbish on their phones stealing from AI generated reddit non-stories, having an intimate conversation with their partner that could be heard over a jet engine, or blasting some offensive crap from their phone with the singer gloating about shooting people.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Meanwhile in Japan, absolute silence or the quietest of mutterings is the norm on their public transit. An approach I would love to see rolled out here.

It was absolutely blissful, to be able to travel without the sounds of some idiot playing AI generated rubbish on their phones stealing from AI generated reddit non-stories, having an intimate conversation with their partner that could be heard over a jet engine, or blasting some offensive crap from their phone with the singer gloating about shooting people.

That to be fair is what the quiet coach should be (I'd rename it to "silence zone" to make the expectation very clear, as I believe SNCF do). But more often than not someone is "s**casting" in there too.

 

[Hyebone]

That to be fair is what the quiet coach should be (I'd rename it to "silence zone" to make the expectation very clear, as I believe SNCF do). But more often than not someone is "s**casting" in there too.

I noticed on the Danish 'S-Tøg' they had a designated quiet zone. It was brilliant. I reckon it's the same elsewhere on commuter rail services in Europe.

It's a shame it can't be implemented on buses as there's no physical separation like there is on a train.

 

[Ballyheigue]

Steady on! While some of us don't condemn the playing of music etc. to the same extent as you, it doesn't mean that we're excusing such behaviour and it certainly does not imply that we're doing it too. How dare you jump to such a conclusion.

I view it as a minor irritation and I'm not going to get my drawers in a fankle over it, especially if I'm only on the bus for a short period of time. It can be annoying, I agree, but I'm not going to get too upset about it; it is not the same as condoning the behaviour, though.

Depends on what's being played, a good 70s/80s (some 90s too) track and I'm all for it. A modern day song and it get's hurled out the window lol. I had a train journey from Whitby to Middlesbrough that had 2 tables full of older end adults (us over 40s) with one of the group playing 80s classics on their phone whilst the others sang along. Brilliant journey, you should have seen the disgusting embarrassed looks on some of the youngsters faces lol.

 

[Deerfold]

Depends on what's being played, a good 70s/80s (some 90s too) track and I'm all for it. A modern day song and it get's hurled out the window lol. I had a train journey from Whitby to Middlesbrough that had 2 tables full of older end adults (us over 40s) with one of the group playing 80s classics on their phone whilst the others sang along. Brilliant journey, you should have seen the disgusting embarrassed looks on some of the youngsters faces lol.

That sounds horrendous.
I like to listen to my own music.
It's irritating when I can hear others' louder than mine in my headphones. As had been pointed out, most mobiles have very poor sound reproduction quality.

 

[alex397]

I’m not sure phone noise can be compared to other general noises you find on public transport. Mobile phone noise is a lot more intrusive than just hearing people talk.
There have been occasions where I’ve listened to my own music with earphones, but I can still hear the incredibly intrusive noise from someone’s mobile phone speakers.
I also don’t always enjoy using earphones so I don’t feel like I should have to use them just because someone is selfish to have a loudspeaker phone conversation or listen to music out loud.
Even if someone is playing one of my favourite songs out loud, I find it incredibly annoying. I don’t want to sound too dramatic, but annoying is an understatement. Maybe it’s my problem, but there is something about that noise that I find completely unbearable, to the extent where I will leave the bus If I’m in a convenient place. On a train, I can generally just move to another carriage.

In regards to other anti-social behaviour, I generally don’t find it a problem, and I’m not sure it’s any worse than in the 90s etc as I’ve heard plenty of anecdotes of how feral it could be back then. Though I don’t tend to travel that late in the evenings anymore, and neither do I tend to travel on the top deck where the usual idiots gravitate to.

 

[GusB]

Depends on what's being played, a good 70s/80s (some 90s too) track and I'm all for it. A modern day song and it get's hurled out the window lol. I had a train journey from Whitby to Middlesbrough that had 2 tables full of older end adults (us over 40s) with one of the group playing 80s classics on their phone whilst the others sang along. Brilliant journey, you should have seen the disgusting embarrassed looks on some of the youngsters faces lol.

Wash your mouth out, lest you be flogged, hung, drawn and quartered!

When the kids are playing their cheesy dance music, I sometimes think "I'll see your happy hardcore and I'll raise you some proper bangin techno".

I’m not sure phone noise can be compared to other general noises you find on public transport. Mobile phone noise is a lot more intrusive than just hearing people talk.
There have been occasions where I’ve listened to my own music with earphones, but I can still hear the incredibly intrusive noise from someone’s mobile phone speakers.
I also don’t always enjoy using earphones so I don’t feel like I should have to use them just because someone is selfish to have a loudspeaker phone conversation or listen to music out loud.
Even if someone is playing one of my favourite songs out loud, I find it incredibly annoying. I don’t want to sound too dramatic, but annoying is an understatement. Maybe it’s my problem, but there is something about that noise that I find completely unbearable, to the extent where I will leave the bus If I’m in a convenient place. On a train, I can generally just move to another carriage.

The problem is that everyone has a different idea about what noise is acceptable. In the 80s and 90s when Walkmans (other personal stereo equipment was available) were all the rage, people wore headphones but often had the music turned up so loud that everyone around could hear part sounds; my opinion then was that they should either turn it down so that no-one could hear it or turn it up so that we could all hear it properly!

In regards to other anti-social behaviour, I generally don’t find it a problem, and I’m not sure it’s any worse than in the 90s etc as I’ve heard plenty of anecdotes of how feral it could be back then. Though I don’t tend to travel that late in the evenings anymore, and neither do I tend to travel on the top deck where the usual idiots gravitate to.

I'm not entirely convinced that there has been any significant rise in anti-social behaviour. The technology has certainly changed over time and more of us have devices that are capable of making noise. As I get older I often find that I'm less tolerant of stuff that I would have ignored in my younger years, but I remind myself that I was also young once and that there were some hi-jinks that I got up to then that I'd regret now.

At the end of the day, if you travel by public transport you have to accept that it's not a private space and that sometimes you'll have to share it with people who don't necessarily share your own values; "acceptable behaviour" is a fairly fluid concept and I'm not going to go out of my way to call out any activities that are unlikely to be harmful to others.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Acceptable behaviour is defined in the conditions of carriage of the bus company or the Railway Byelaws. It isn't a matter of opinion.

 

[alex397]

I'm not entirely convinced that there has been any significant rise in anti-social behaviour. The technology has certainly changed over time and more of us have devices that are capable of making noise. As I get older I often find that I'm less tolerant of stuff that I would have ignored in my younger years, but I remind myself that I was also young once and that there were some hi-jinks that I got up to then that I'd regret now.

I omitted this from my last post - I don’t think there’s been a rise either, and could even be less of a problem now, in my experience. I rarely see any of the sort of vile behaviour I did up to the mid 2000s. I still see it, but it seems rare now.

The ‘we were all young once’ argument doesn’t work with me as I don’t think I’ve ever been young! When I was a ‘yoof’ I could never understand why so many of my peers would behave the way they did. Saying that though, I don’t think I’ve become less tolerant as I get older - I’m fine with lots of different noises and behaviours on a bus, but I just draw the line at the phone noise. I appreciate different things annoy different people, but there does seem to be a lot of hatred about phone noise - it’s resulted in political statements and news articles.
I also find a lot of the phone noise, if not most, comes from people who are certainly far from their youth!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also find a lot of the phone noise, if not most, comes from people who are certainly far from their youth!

A not exactly small chunk of it comes from lazy parents who would rather play their kids Peppa Pig on a tablet and scroll their own phone than engage with them about the journey. This is going to breed a generation of absolutely awfully behaved adults, unfortunately. If you're not even willing to engage with your kids when travelling because your own phone is your priority, perhaps don't become a parent? Once you do, your kids are your everything.

 

[Hyebone]

A not exactly small chunk of it comes from lazy parents who would rather play their kids Peppa Pig on a tablet and scroll their own phone than engage with them about the journey. This is going to breed a generation of absolutely awfully behaved adults, unfortunately. If you're not even willing to engage with your kids when travelling because your own phone is your priority, perhaps don't become a parent? Once you do, your kids are your everything.

Agreed.

 

[BuhSnarf]

I also find a lot of the phone noise, if not most, comes from people who are certainly far from their youth!

I actually find that the music from phones is not as big an issue as people make out - I maybe encounter this once or twice a month and it's usually at the back on the top deck so it's not really annoying for me as I'm not sitting near them, it's the conversations on phones that are more frequent, I had a trip the other day with 8 buses and EVERY SINGLE ONE had at least one person having a conversation on speaker phone, one for the full 45 minute journey. The main issue with this is that these people don't sit in the naughty back seats, they sit at the front, in the middle, upstairs and downstairs...

And you're absolutely right, most are middle aged or older.

Interestingly on the topic of conditions of carriage that was mentioned earlier on in the thread, I feel like some operators don't really help themselves here for example this one from Arriva:

"Behave in any way which causes offence to other passengers and our staff – this includes verbal or physical abuse; being under the influence of alcohol, drugs or solvents; wearing soiled or dirty clothing; putting your feet on seats; consuming and playing personal or other music systems too loudly."

And from First Bus - "play or operate any musical equipment or instruments (including radios, mobile phones, MP3 devices etc) on vehicles at a volume that is likely to cause annoyance to other Customers;"

Neither of these mention mention making calls on speaker phone or scrolling through TikTok or other loud activity and is very woolly about the music aspect, only that it is not too loud - but leaves it rather open as to who defines loud?

Stagecoach do have better wording which would cover phone calls / TikTok:

"refrain from playing loud music or operating a personal device at a volume which may be heard by other passengers"

Go Ahead are good, but restrict it only to talking about music, not using the phone on speaker or scrolling loudly:

"Please feel free to listen to music (it can make the journey much quicker) but use headphones at all times as our other customers may not want to listen!"

trentbarton apparently don't even allow music with headphones, but you can make loud phone calls and scroll TikTok, I actually wouldn't be against someone whipping out a musical instrument for an impromptu on bus concert but that's not happening on trentbarton:

"The playing of musical instruments or audio equipment by passengers on the Company’s vehicles is forbidden."

I think maybe the operators should get together to have a consistent and updated conditions of carriage where it comes to phone usage on a bus...? Interestingly as well it was only Arriva, Go Ahead and First that said putting feet on seats wasn't allowed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that the main annoyance of this is due to the tinny poor quality speaker on phones, I wonder if speakers will be improved at any point such that they aren't annoying? I am not sure, aside from the "gangster rap" I note above (which should probably be a public order offence to play in public due to the swearing and violent/sexual assault themes it carries, other than enclosed venues to which only adults have access - certainly it should never be played within earshot of any under-15* ever), I wouidn't find general music annoying if it were played from a high quality speaker and full songs were played. I don't for instance find it annoying when coach drivers put the radio on on board. Ariana Grande and the likes might not be my taste for instance but I don't find it to grate in that way.

Similarly a speakerphone conversation on a high quality Bluetooth speaker with decent bass would be fine as it would be exactly the same as a conversation between those two people in person.

The one thing that is ALWAYS annoying is scrolling Tiktok though.

* I say 15 because it would probably get a 15 rating were it in a film in the cinema, so that's a reasonable basis to determine it on.

 

[AlterEgo]

* I say 15 because it would probably get a 15 rating were it in a film in the cinema, so that's a reasonable basis to determine it on.

You can't say the n-word in the context gangster rap does in a 15 rated film. They'd all be 18 certificates.

But more broadly I think the UK has to enforce some basic values and standards in public spaces. I'm not sure I agree with tipping off 14 year olds in the middle of nowhere but we do need to do a lot more than we are currently doing.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Given that the main annoyance of this is due to the tinny poor quality speaker on phones, I wonder if speakers will be improved at any point such that they aren't annoying? I am not sure, aside from the "gangster rap" I note above (which should probably be a public order offence to play in public due to the swearing and violent/sexual assault themes it carries, other than enclosed venues to which only adults have access - certainly it should never be played within earshot of any under-15* ever), I wouidn't find general music annoying if it were played from a high quality speaker and full songs were played. I don't for instance find it annoying when coach drivers put the radio on on board. Ariana Grande and the likes might not be my taste for instance but I don't find it to grate in that way.

Similarly a speakerphone conversation on a high quality Bluetooth speaker with decent bass would be fine as it would be exactly the same as a conversation between those two people in person.

The one thing that is ALWAYS annoying is scrolling Tiktok though.

* I say 15 because it would probably get a 15 rating were it in a film in the cinema, so that's a reasonable basis to determine it on.

You're right, tinny speakers is the main cause of annoyance - usually it's because these people have cheaper phones as if you get a more expensive phone they have much improved speakers. The other issue is that they put them at such a high volume that even the good ones struggle.

Urgh, Tiktok is awful with it's constant changing of video!

 

[Sprinter107]

Playing music loud on a bus is a very regular occurrence on a Birmingham bus. There are 2 going as i type this.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Playing music loud on a bus is a very regular occurrence on a Birmingham bus. There are 2 going as i type this.

Upstairs or downstairs? They competing like some bus music dance off?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Upstairs or downstairs? They competing like some bus music dance off?

I've had it suggested that one way to get them to pack it in is to sit next to them and put Classic FM on full volume, then agree to turn yours off if they turn theirs off. I'm too well behaved for that though

 

[BuhSnarf]

I've had it suggested that one way to get them to pack it in is to sit next to them and put Classic FM on full volume, then agree to turn yours off if they turn theirs off. I'm too well behaved for that though

Well, Classic is actually quite a good thing for calming down situations - many McDonald's restaurants use this in the evenings to reduce anti social behaviour. Maybe the buses should pipe this over the speakers?

I'd suggest sitting next to them and playing some Aqua or Vengaboys

 

[Sprinter107]

Upstairs or downstairs? They competing like some bus music dance off?

Both upper deck. In fairness, you rarely hear music on the lower deck, its just speakerphone.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Both upper deck. In fairness, you rarely hear music on the lower deck, its just speakerphone.

Yeah, this is what I've found.

Pre-2000 the upper deck was smoking and downstairs was for Deirdre and Delores to be loudly complaining about the price of a loaf at Tesco.
Now the upper deck is blasting out your speakerphone and downstairs is a competition for who can hold the longest most personally revealing phone conversation possible.

I know WAY too much about other bus users love lives at this point.

 

[Sprinter107]

Yes, that about how it is. Saying that, im on my second bus of the day, sitting upstairs and its a lovely peaceful journey into town.