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Anti 450 Rebellion

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Dennis

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The comparative seat width data provided is somewhat pointless - how many SWT passengers (specifically commuters) are going to use the bus or aeroplane as an alternative. Seat width data for the trains being replaced and for a Ford Mondeo are the essential comparative data.
 

WessexWarrior

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The comparative seat width data provided is somewhat pointless - how many SWT passengers (specifically commuters) are going to use the bus or aeroplane as an alternative. Seat width data for the trains being replaced and for a Ford Mondeo are the essential comparative data.

Agreed, I wondered what the point was...
 

960012

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They dont give a **** about how many people sot down its all down to seat numbers on trains!!!
 

thefab444

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That guy who made the video is a prat. He showed us on the map how they're only meant to go to Guildford; but surely 450s show up on Wareham - Brockenhurst runs daily, this isn't outer suburban, we want 444s! 450s also on Pompey via Eastleigh and Southampton runs wasn't uncommon.

Anyway, the easiest solution would be to reinstate the Pigs; IMO the SWT solution will be to do nothing, or if we're very very lucky, a handful more triple 4s.
 
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Tom

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Lucky? More 444s?! ;) More like unlucky! ;) ;)

I would say that the ideal solution would be to bring back 442s though...
 

Oracle

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There have been incidences of 450s being used on Southampton or even Brockenhurst-London as a result of engineering works in the last 12 months, something referred to on the local BBC South Today and Radio Solent. I gather that in the next TT change 450s may be doing longer runs from Soton Central as a "stopping" service to replace the Wareham-Brockenhurst trains. with waiting time at Brockenhurst to allow overtaking. I assume that means either using P4 (unlikely) or P1 and the crossover before the LC in the Down direction.
 

thefab444

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Lucky? More 444s?! ;) More like unlucky! ;) ;)

I would say that the ideal solution would be to bring back 442s though...

Heh, nah 444s, bringing back the 442s at expense and they only lasting another 10 - 20 years - remember the planned withdrawal was 2012, it'd just be easier to buy some 444s... or 445s? 10 car 360 cabbed 444?
 

Guinness

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I would say that the ideal solution would be to bring back 442s though...

So SWT can lose £5 every mile? I think we all know that won't happen. It's will be another GNER franchise fiasco if it did. It's money that controls the Railways of Today and not passenger convenience/happiness.

Surely lengthening 444 units would be a better solution than High Density Seating? Then again I haven't got a Quail map nor am I the expert on SR Platform lengths!...
 

WessexWarrior

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I would say that the ideal solution would be to bring back 442s though...

Realistically, it isn't. Even as a quick fix, they wouldn't necessarily solve the problem, and even so, it doesn't sort the long term issues out. As sad as it is, we've got to realise that they were less consistent and more expensive as they got older, and seeing as they were based on 40 year old undergear, they had probably had their day.

What do Pompeyites think about 455s?

I saw one zip past my window in Southampton the other day, haha.
 

Hentis

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The good idea here is yes to bring back the pigs. but with the last lot of fitters at Bomo picking up the P45 in the next few weeks I think thats highly unlikely.

The original refurbishment for the 442's was for the unit to go away to Doncaster for removal of the buffet and guards compatment and snug and to add standard class seating. Even SWT agreed that this would provide more seating that was currently on the 444's. Obviously there would have to be a smaller guards compartment. Obviously refurbishment would have meant the traction equipment would have had a good seeing to as well, but SWT pulled the plug on wanting to keep the units, even before it was announced that they had won the franchise.* So Angel trains only sought for a c6 at Ilford. Thus really sealing the 442's fate. I think that by the end of this year the 442's could be going for scrap, thats my personal opinion, I hate it but if Gatex are going to only use 2414,2421 & 2424 then what of the other 21? We know perhaps that Southern may take a few but thats it. It may enlighten some people to know that the 450's not only work the Wareham to Brock, they also run Wareham - Winchester, Wareham - Southampton, Basingstoke - Weymouth and Poole to Waterloo. So why the the chap from Guilford is moaning is beyond me. The seats are crap fine but thats with most trains these days.

Personally I cant see them bringing the 442's back on SWT metals at all. @ 70p per mile per unit per day whilst the Dessies are getting 30 pence per mile per unit per day then we might see an extra order for perhaps 10 more 444's or 450's.

* I recieved the information from my contact at the beginning of September about SWT ending the 442's and the redundancies at Bomo but could not say anything until the news was confirmed by my contact. So news had been walking the boards for a good few weeks before SWT got the Franchise.

Cheers

Hentis
 
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