The manager will have the final say over HR
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Another Rejection!!!
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The manager will have the final say over HR
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No, that's wrong. It USED to be the case that managers had the final say but I can assure you that, at least at most bigger TOCs, nowadays the decision is down to HR.
A DM interview now is scored. All a manager can do is give a high score to a candidate they want and a low score to one they don't. HR then add that score to the various other scores picked up through the application stages and take those with the highest numbers.
DMs used to be able to get the final say but it's very rare now at most TOCs-they have little influence over who they take on.
A-Driver is correct.....the whole shooting match from initial application/assessment is scored, and continously scored right through to pre offer. Whichever way you look at this, there are 100s of applications per single role, and there has to be a " sift " at each stage......as brutal as that might sound, its the fairest way of funnelling candidates into jobs.
The only thing I can suggest to those who do get rejected is to keep trying.....my own experience is of being rejected twice, interestingly at a lower level than I was actually succesfull at.....and I m now 3 month into a role which I am thoroughly enjoying!!
The only thing I can suggest to those who do get rejected is to keep trying.....my own experience is of being rejected twice, interestingly at a lower level than I was actually succesfull at.....and I m now 3 month into a role which I am thoroughly enjoying!!
Beveridges
Established Member
This is how a DM can still get the person they want into the job. The DM will get who they want. DM's know a lot of the guards and often encourage the guards who they like to put in for driving. When these guards turn up in the interview they give them really high scores when their answers could have been average at best.
The DM's may also know you and don't like you. You could be giving excellent answers and getting a very low score. The DM's are very much in control of who gets the job at Interview stage.
theageofthetra
Established Member
Regarding the scoring how does that work if you have taken assessments across 3 different TOC's as I have (or did them privately). OPC at Watford said the new assessments don't have a score on their records, just a pass or fail. Not sure about the old style assessments.
But that is far different from DMs having the final say or overruling HR. If someone scores highly at every part of the process but gets a low score at interview then they still may get the job over someone who scores low elsewhere but gets top marks at interview.
Plus a DM at interview has to ask specific questions. They have to document the answers given and score based on those. So they can't ignore someone's good answers and give them low marks as you seen to be hinting at.
Not to add fuel to a fire, but at my interview, there was only 2 DM's present, both from the same depot and not from the one I applied for.
I was unsuccessful and the feedback I was eventually given, now I have had a few weeks to think it over, doesn't ring true with what I said in that interview. It seems I had to be 'prompted' on one of the safety critical questions, though I cannot remember been 'prompted' in any way.
Who is to say that they wrote down what they 'thought' they heard rather than what was actually said?
I also suspect it was for a whole different reason I was unsuccessful but I have no proof of this, but they both did 'grill' me on one aspect of the interview and both seemed not to be happy with what I had said.
I will, however, now know for next time what I need to correct.
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Sorry but I'm not willing to buy into the argument of the interviewer falsifying your answers on paper to satisfy their own agenda. It's a very serious allegation to make and if you honestly believe that this happened then you need to pursue it officially, not suggest it may or may not have happened on the internet. As for them mis-hearing or mis-understanding you, that isn't their problem-it's yours. You need to work on interview technique to ensure what you mean actually comes across and that they can't 'think you said something different'. So either you are trying to make serious allegations or you need to work on interview technique.
Of course interviewers make up their minds on candidates based on the general vibe of an interview and this will affect how they score you but it's serious to suggest that they actually altered what you said.
The scores for interviews are also not purely based on those answers so of course the manager interviewing you can have some say after meeting you but my point is that the final say comes down to a variety of scores from HR. The manager interviewing can't then overrule that decision.
And whilst I'm sorry you didn't get the job, it's worth considering that the reason you wernt successful this time was purely because they had 20 candidates to fill 5 positions and 5 of the other 20 were deemed better suited than you were. Nothing you could have done differently and on another occasion you may have been top candidate out of the bunch but this time you were just unlucky. You may have been 6th best and had there been more positions for the job.
Everyone who attends an interview thinks that they are 100% suited to the job and should definately get it. It's not worth trying to blame the interviewer of accusing them of twisting your words just because on this occasion you didn't get the job.
LBSCR Times
Member
Thanks for saying / agreeing that too!
No worries, and for the record I believe it is a silly way to do things but that's the business world! Infact at my London commuter belt toc someone in an office in Aberdeen was responsible for making the final decision to employ me!
Some pretty interesting points thrown in hear. At the end of the day, had 2 interviews in a month, ended up with a No! but, won't let it beat me. Back on the saddle as they say. Hopefully they will see my eagerness to join with more applications as and when they appear. If anything, the process has just fed that hunger to want to work for them even more
So if a DM says a certain candidate is not suitable for the role HR can then give them the job anyway? I think you misunderstood my quote. If a DM says the candidate is not suitable for a role they don't get the job unless you are correct and things have changed that much that someone from HR can actually give someone a drivers job when a DM says they are not suitable?
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Is this fact or is this your idea of what happens? I have never known a DM to give false scores to anyone. If there is an incident where it is investigated by the RAIB they will look at the original interview notes and if they have been falsified or have been loaded by the DM they will be in a lot of trouble. It is just not worth doing something like that unless you are a risk taker.
Quite simply, yes, things have changed 'that much'.
DMs don't actually talk to hr after interviews, they just submit the paperwork which HR look at. If a DM was that sure that someone was really that unsuitable then they would obviously score them very low in interview anyway but it's very, very, very unlikely that someone would score highly enough in all other areas to then be that unsuitable in interview and get the job anyway. Infact I'd go out on a limb and state that if that ever happened then it would highlight a massive failing within the entire process.
Jones
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I sometimes get like this, but remember they have hundreds if not thousands of applications, some a total waste of time and others too close to call.
Recruitment generally seems to have taken on a somewhat dismissive tone. An Email to confirm receipt of an application is usually as much communication as I get.
I sometimes get like this, but remember they have hundreds if not thousands of applications, some a total waste of time and others too close to call.
Recruitment generally seems to have taken on a somewhat dismissive tone. An Email to confirm receipt of an application is usually as much communication as I get.
Sadly the ball is in their court at the moment. Far, far more applicants for each driver job than they need so they can pretty much afford to upset people and let them drop out along the way.
Not great but the way it is.
LBSCR Times
Member
It's not just driver jobs either, such Customer posts in Controls also get 'hundreds' of applicants, mostly external when advertised accordingly!
HR sieve through and whittle out those they consider unsuitable before submitting a very shortened list to managers for interviews.
There are some vacancies within Network Rail for signalling staff in Cornwall if you fancy that side of things.
carriageline
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They are really, really desperate for signallers down there too!!
Railblazer
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jobtestprep.co.uk have some good methods and I think there is also a skype interview they can give you too.
AndyN
Member
Im in the same boat. Im trying to get on Northern Rail as a Train Presentation Operative. I worked for British Rail for 9 Years and have done this work before when it was called Carriage Cleaners lol. I nievly thought because I had history of working for British Rail and had experience of this work I only had to turn up and present myself well and the job was mine. I was gutted when I never got it. However I slipped up when they asked me the explain a situation when questions. Being honest I had a email preparing for the interview but thought it was just a mass email and didn't think they would ask them for being a Train Cleaner. They did. Anyway I will be better prepared next time. I am waiting on 3 Train Presentation Operative jobs one of which is at Wigan. Got invited to the online DSI Test which I passed and informed im now in the whittling down process. I also sent Northern Rail a CV through the post as well. Im hoping that my name keep appearing and my name keep applying for these jobs will pay off in the end. I was told at the last interview its on a Points System.
I think a lot of people fail the conductors interview on the question "What does a conductor Do". I know the TOC that i work for are looking for you to answer "Safety" as in the train, passengers etc before you even think about dispatching duties, selling tickets and customer enquiries.
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