Another Plusbus query

[toffeedanish]

Is it possible to buy a Plusbus add-on for an already-purchased EC Flat Fare (i.e. one of the recently offered £8 tickets)? I know I can buy seperately, but wording on the PlusBus website says it is possible to buy with all Advance and Walk On fares. Is inclusivity of all ticket types implicit in the intention of this wording or is it so to specifically exclude other ticket types? Or for this purpose is a Flat Fare actually an Advance, even though it doesn't specifically say this on the ticket.

For information I have an EC Flat Fare from York to Glasgow Cen/Qst AP EC Trns Only valid as advertised.

Many thanks.

 

[MikeWh]

On the basis that Walk On is a basket description for all types that can be purchased immediately prior to travel on the day (inc Off-Peak, Anytime, Super Off-Peak, ...) I would assume that Advance is a basket description for those that have to be purchased in advance.

 

[Dewedin]

You can buy Plusbus for the origin or destination on any rail ticket.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

They can be issued for the origin and/or destination of any single, day return, period return* or season ticket (where a plusbus season ticket exists).

They cannot be issued for rail tickets between stations within the same plusbus scheme (e.g. Luton to Leagrave) nor can you have a plusbus day ticket with a season ticket or have plusbus as an add on for Rail Rovers and Rangers.

*You will be issued two plusbus tickets for twice the price, unless the return date is not known.

 

[John @ home]

nor can you ... have plusbus as an add on for Rail ... Rangers.

This has not been the practice I have encountered. I have obtained day plusbus add-ons to Rail (Day) Rangers without difficulty.

Can you quote a source for this restriction, please?

 

[LexyBoy]

This has not been the practice I have encountered. I have obtained day plusbus add-ons to Rail (Day) Rangers without difficulty.

Can you quote a source for this restriction, please?

And I'm pretty sure you can buy PlusBus Day tickets with a Season. I regularly do!

 

[Greenback]

So do I, usually from the guard on the train!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Source.....

....

Issue plusbus with all rail ticket types

Plusbus can be issued with all "advance" and "walk-up" train fares, as follows:

Single rail ticket = issue a plusbus day ticket for origin &/or destination town

Day Return rail ticket = issue a plusbus day ticket for origin &/or destination town

Period Return rail ticket = issue 2xplusbus day tickets for origin &/or destination town, one for outward date, one for return date. If the return dateis not known, you can only issue plusbus for the customers outward journey.

Season tickets = issue the relevant plusbus season ticket

Available to 200 towns and cities nationwide, for fixed periods (to match the most popular rail season tickets sold): 7-days, 1-month, 3-months and a year....

Although I doubt anyone will complain about staff not doing their job correctly in this case.

Edit: The Plusbus website - http://www.plusbus.info/how-issue

 

[John @ home]

Originally Posted by frpp
....

It doesn't seem to me that a heading Issue plusbus with all rail ticket types followed by guidance on how to issue PlusBus tickets for some (but not all) ticket types is most sensibly interpreted as an instruction not to issue them with those ticket types not mentioned.

My experience is only of obtaining PlusBus tickets assoicated with the Origin station, e.g.
LEEDS - SOUTH PENNINES DR
and
LEEDS - LEEDS PLUSBUS.

It may be different if attempting to buy a PlusBus ticket for use to/from another station within the validity of a Rover/Ranger.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

So you think that "because there is no instruction not to do it, it is fine to do it", rather than "because there is no instruction to do it, it should not be done".

 

[LexyBoy]

7. Is it possible to buy season tickets for PLUSBUS?
Yes, but you must have a season ticket for train travel as well [...]

If you don't want the period of validity of your PLUSBUS season ticket to match your rail season ticket - that is OK, but your PLUSBUS ticket MUST expire either on the same date as your rail season ticket, or on a date before your rail season ticket expires.

Would include Day tickets by my interpretation.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Would include Day tickets by my interpretation.

7. Is it possible to buy season tickets for PLUSBUS?
Yes, but you must have a season ticket for train travel as well [...]

If you don't want the period of validity of your PLUSBUS season ticket to match your rail season ticket - that is OK, but your PLUSBUS ticket MUST expire either on the same date as your rail season ticket, or on a date before your rail season ticket expires

Not in mine. To me it says that if I have a monthly rail ticket I can have a 7-day PLUSBUS ticket provided it doesn't last beyond the expiry of my rail season.

 

[John @ home]

So you think that "because there is no instruction not to do it, it is fine to do it", rather than "because there is no instruction to do it, it should not be done".

In this instance, my thoughts do not correspond with either of those statements.

I would contend that the heading Issue plusbus with all rail ticket types also contains relevant information which is not taken fully into account by the statement

nor can you ... have plusbus as an add on for Rail ... Rangers.

Indeed, the PlusBus site indicates otherwise

PLUSBUS can be issued with all “advance”& “walk-up” train fares

http://www.plusbus.info/how-issue

Rail Rovers and Rangers are “walk-up” train fares - they do not have to be purchased in advance.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If your going to quote bits, please quote all the relevant bits, I've underlined the important bit you have missed (deliberately or otherwise).

....
PLUSBUS can be issued with all “advance”& “walk-up” train fares, as follows:

•Single rail ticket = issue a PLUSBUS DAY ticket for origin &/or destination town;
•Day Return rail ticket = issue a PLUSBUS DAY ticket for origin &/or destination town;
•Period Return rail ticket = issue two PLUSBUS DAY tickets for origin &/or destination town, one for the outward date and a second for the return date. If the return date is not known, you can only issue a PLUSBUS DAY ticket for the customers outward journey.
•Season ticket = issue the relevant period PLUSBUS season ticket. Most towns’ & cities now have PLUSBUS season tickets. These are for set periods (to match most rail seasons): 7-days, 1-month; 3-months and a year. You will need to use the same Photocard number on the PLUSBUS season ticket as used on the rail season ticket....

Therefore even if rovers and rangers were 'walk-up' fares (I don't believe they ever have been) there are no instructions to allow it and so they can't have PLUSBUS add-ons (unless you believe that no instructions means there are no instructions not to do it and therfore it's fine).

 

[philjo]

I asked PlusBus about this (using the contact us email link) - asking in particular about being able to use it at intermediate stations with a rail season ticket

their reply was:

1). You can only buy PLUSBUS tickets for the stations/towns named on your rail season ticket at the origin and destination.

2). You cannot buy PLUSBUS tickets if you hold a Rail Rover or Rail Ranger pass.

 

[PTF62]

I asked PlusBus about this (using the contact us email link) - asking in particular about being able to use it at intermediate stations with a rail season ticket

their reply was:

1). You can only buy PLUSBUS tickets for the stations/towns named on your rail season ticket at the origin and destination.

2). You cannot buy PLUSBUS tickets if you hold a Rail Rover or Rail Ranger pass.

I have never had a problem buying a Plusbus ticket for a town at an intermediate station on my season ticket. Presumably either the ticket office staff don't know or don't care (although I think I was the first person to ever buy a Plusbus ticket from them), or the Plusbus helpline are wrong.

Before I bought one for the first time I checked the Plusbus website, and the only thing I could see that specifically stated when you couldn't buy a ticket was -

"11. Can I use PLUSBUS if my train journey is between two stations that are within the same bus zone?
Sorry, no. Your train journey must either start, or finish at a station outside the PLUSBUS town zone (or PTE region)."

In my case the intermediate station is well outside where I am starting the journey.

The other examples could potentially be interpreted in different ways, and didn't specifically cover intermediate stations, for example -

"2. I have already bought my train ticket, can I still buy PLUSBUS for my journey?
Yes, if you take your valid train ticket to any train station ticket office, ask for PLUSBUS for either your origin or destination town. "

Well my 'destination' on that journey is the intermediate station I want to buy the Plusbus ticket for, and my train ticket is valid for a journey to that destination. In fact season tickets are advertised on this very basis, that you can use them as you see fit between the two points named on the tickets.

So if the Plusbus helpline is correct (and I don't believe they are), they need to put the information in clear unambiguous terms on their website. Then my local station can go back to the situation before of never selling their tickets.

As a aside, one of the reasons why I suspect that there are never any tickets sold for my local town, is that the pricing policy seems very strange.

For example, a Plusbus ticket for Milton Keynes costs £2 a day and covers a vast area of MK and Bletchley, and gives a good saving compared to a normal Arriva day saver of £3.50.

However in my local town, where the Plusbus ticket covers an area about 2 miles in radius and only three bus routes, all of which stop operating before 7pm, the Plusbus ticket still costs £2. However since a single each way on the bus from one side of town to the other is 85p, the only people likely to pay buy a Plusbus ticket are those who can't do maths.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I have never had a problem buying a Plusbus ticket for a town at an intermediate station on my season ticket. Presumably either the ticket office staff don't know or don't care (although I think I was the first person to ever buy a Plusbus ticket from them), or the Plusbus helpline are wrong....

I tend to find on forums that staff are wrong unless they can be proved to be right. so by that logic, the staff are in the wrong, listen to all those complaints about the staff in this matter, the silence is deafening! :roll:

....Before I bought one for the first time I checked the Plusbus website, and the only thing I could see that specifically stated when you couldn't buy a ticket was -

"11. Can I use PLUSBUS if my train journey is between two stations that are within the same bus zone?
Sorry, no. Your train journey must either start, or finish at a station outside the PLUSBUS town zone (or PTE region)."

In my case the intermediate station is well outside where I am starting the journey.

The other examples could potentially be interpreted in different ways, and didn't specifically cover intermediate stations, for example -

"2. I have already bought my train ticket, can I still buy PLUSBUS for my journey?
Yes, if you take your valid train ticket to any train station ticket office, ask for PLUSBUS for either your origin or destination town. "

Well my 'destination' on that journey is the intermediate station I want to buy the Plusbus ticket for, and my train ticket is valid for a journey to that destination. In fact season tickets are advertised on this very basis, that you can use them as you see fit between the two points named on the tickets....

The wording on the plusbus site and the FRPP probably could be better, but Average Joe wouldn't know the difference and, aside from the staff page, that is who it is aimed at really. Bear in mind that Average Joe doesn't buy tickets for further than they require as, for the most part, they believe it will cost them more.

....So if the Plusbus helpline is correct (and I don't believe they are), they need to put the information in clear unambiguous terms on their website. Then my local station can go back to the situation before of never selling their tickets....

Ah, so rail staff, who are regularly regarded on here as incompetent or who "don't know the rules" and/or "lack the required training", are now suddenly 100% in the right and the helpline devoted soley to the use of plusbus tickets, who have no other purpose, are wrong, or jobsworths, or something else, yeah,it is clear that that is the right way round.:roll:

 

[PTF62]

Ah, so rail staff, who are regularly regarded on here as incompetent or who "don't know the rules" and/or "lack the required training", are now suddenly 100% in the right and the helpline devoted soley to the use of plusbus tickets, who have no other purpose, are wrong, or jobsworths, or something else, yeah,it is clear that that is the right way round.:roll:

Actually I have generally found that ticket office staff know what they are talking about*, and the rail staff on here especially very helpful. On the other hand, I generally find that staff in a customer service centres cannot help with unusual queries, as quite simply they are not trained to deal with them.

I agree that the Plusbus web site is intended for 'Joe Public' who isn't going to ask such a question, but you would have thought that it would have been mentioned on the Rail Staff only page if tickets should not be issued for intermediate stations.

Anyway, I work on the principal that I will ask to buy a ticket and if I am sold a ticket, great, if not, then I am not going to argue with the guy on the counter over the ambiguous wording on the Plusbus site.

*The only silly exception was when someone at an FCC ticket office refused to believe that you could buy a London to Chichester ticket for £3, and I had to go and get a print out of the NR web site before they would believe me and sell me the ticket.

 

[barrykas]

I have never had a problem buying a Plusbus ticket for a town at an intermediate station on my season ticket. Presumably either the ticket office staff don't know or don't care (although I think I was the first person to ever buy a Plusbus ticket from them), or the Plusbus helpline are wrong.

*snip*

"2. I have already bought my train ticket, can I still buy PLUSBUS for my journey?
Yes, if you take your valid train ticket to any train station ticket office, ask for PLUSBUS for either your origin or destination town. "

Well my 'destination' on that journey is the intermediate station I want to buy the Plusbus ticket for, and my train ticket is valid for a journey to that destination. In fact season tickets are advertised on this very basis, that you can use them as you see fit between the two points named on the tickets.

So if the Plusbus helpline is correct (and I don't believe they are), they need to put the information in clear unambiguous terms on their website. Then my local station can go back to the situation before of never selling their tickets.

Given the PlusBus "helpline" is run by Journey Solutions, who are in overall charge of the PlusBus scheme, they should know their rules.

And whilst the wording could be improved, it's unambiguous for the 95%+ of travellers who don't break their journey or use split tickets or anything like that.

Having said that, I'd quite happily sell a PlusBus ticket for just about anywhere, so long as the person requesting it can show me a train ticket that's valid to get there.

Cheers,

Barry