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Another Newspaper Rant!

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Aictos

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I disagree; I thought he made quite a complimentary point about many of the railway staff who come and visit railway forums and I'd be interested in knowing in why you thought it was offensive.

Mojo, the part in his article which offended me was "The staff are rude. The information is poor and the attitude to delays is *callous or indifferent."

By saying that in general terms to me means being applied to all staff even these who actually do their best under trying circumstances, if he had written "but although some staff are rude/unhelpful, I actually found the majority of staff more then willing to help where needed" then I wouldn't have been so offended by it.
 
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Mojo

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Mojo, the part in his article which offended me was "The staff are rude. The information is poor and the attitude to delays is *callous or indifferent."

By saying that in general terms to me means being applied to all staff even these who actually do their best under trying circumstances, if he had written "but although some staff are rude/unhelpful, I actually found the majority of staff more then willing to help where needed" then I wouldn't have been so offended by it.
I wasn't talking about the Article though, I was responding to Old Timer's critique of NickW's post, which I considered to be a very fair and truthful statement of the facts, as well as being complimentary about many of the staff who post on this forum.
 

tbtc

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On my way to Buxton the other week 4 pensioners got on at Picc and half way through the Journey DEMANDED that I telephone Control and get the train stopped at Dove Holes, I asked him why, he rudely said the previous train was cancelled (it wasn't) (and it ran on time, I checked) and as it was cancelled he demands to be let off at Dove Holes, I politely if not exasperatedly told him that it was not possible as the train was already running late (rush hour) and control would not allow it, he then went on about poor customer service (some people hate being told no) and called me Mr Crap (I have been called worse lol)

I was polite

I told him the truth

and I'm sure he would have complained

incidents like this because the pax didn't get the answer he required can get Train crew into trouble through exaggerated bulls**t that I'm sure he would have put in his complaint.

thats the real world that Train Crew have to live in, truth of the matter is The MAJORITY of incidents are caused by passengers not getting the answer they want.

I'm sure this will cause arguments but to be blunt that is what really happens in well over half of pax complaints, Train Crew/Staff tell them the answer to their question and they don't like it, and to make them feel better they will bad mouth Train staff. as they would never admit that they are in the wrong, seen it too many times to mention

That a really interesting example of the kind of thing you are up against in the daily job. I work in complaints, and deal with a lot of unsubstantiated complaints against people in my company. Often the allegations are a pack of lies, but they still need investigated ("in case...") which is both costly and expensive and creates internal distrust... easy for people to sling mud, but (whilst I can discipline colleagues who *have* made mistakes) I can't discipline members of the public who are "stirring" <(
 

jon0844

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Wouldn't it be nice if you could name and shame those members of the public found to be lying, and share that information around!
 

Old Timer

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I wasn't talking about the Article though, I was responding to Old Timer's critique of NickW's post, which I considered to be a very fair and truthful statement of the facts, as well as being complimentary about many of the staff who post on this forum.
Hello, Old Chap.

You know me personally, and you know I have a pride in doing what I do well, albeit until recently that was not in a passenger facing role. Like many of my colleagues - who have worked tirelessly and thanklessly through the Christmas period to undertake major enhancement works to improve the Railways, we also take personally the various media-led witch-hunts and plain disinformation that is trottted out when its a slow news day and its the Railways turn to suffer the attention of some overhung reporter with a personal axe to grind.

Jonmoriss0844, and Oliver have both demonstrated from their expereinces that the generalisation is wrong, and ANorthenGuard, , Ajax103, have said why they feel the comments offensive, and wrong. There is nothing of value I can add to those comments and I would not wish to dilute them by trying to do so.

I find the sweeping generalisation of the post that suggests the poster's overall experience has been negative to be rather hard to believe.

Metroland is to be congratulated on finding some University research which actually puts paid to the myths.

No Railwayman would propound the theory that everyone is perfect, and that there are not some who do not perform or behave as would be expected. In these cases we expect Management to manage and deal with these people. We take issue though with the suggestion that there is a
major systemic problem in our railway that cannot be spread under the carpet
. Such a comment can only come from somone who is happy to pass judgement and label staff across a whole Industry..... on the basis of how many journeys ?



.... I can't discipline members of the public who are "stirring" <(
No you obviously cannot, but you can observe that a person against whom a non-substantiated complaint was made may well have grounds for redress against the complainant. ;)
 
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lancastrian

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How about we defund the railway, de-regulate it .. and if it can't make a profit, sell the property and close it.

I would agree to this, providing that we use the same concept and conditions for our road system, because without the road tax subsidy, then hardly any of our roads make a profit. What is needed is not necesserily renationalisation, (although I agree the Moronic Major Governemnts privitisation was the most incompitant EVER), but let treat the railways the same way that we treat the roads.

For example, when that pilliock who was driving from Hull to Manchester after chatting online for 24 hours and wa svery tired and caused the Heck accident. What should have happened was that all Motorway bridges over Railways should have been closed until extended crash barriers where built and tested to stop the heaviest lorries. Even though it was a car and trailer that caused the accident.

If you think this sounds daft, well it is, but if a train had come off the rails while going over a motorway, then you can be sure that the 'elf n safety' idiots would do it to the railways. So what is needed is less biasedness in favour of the roads and treat them both the same.
 

Nick W

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I do apologise if my post suggested that there was a majority of rude staff.

Obviously the vast majority of journeys are on-time, without incident, and with little staff contact except for purchase of tickets and a simple "thank you" when my ticket is examined.

My experience seems to be that the vast majority of incidents of rudeness are station staff during times of trouble (who to be fair are often suffering at the hands of incompetent controllers), barrier line staff when they're disturbed from doing nothing for legitimate reasons and ticket office staff who don't know how to do their job and don't respond to polite requests (who we sadly know from people on these forums are poorly trained). I'm not going to give figures for what percentage of staff I think are rude, just that it's sufficiently higher that 0% to represent a serious problem.

In terms of information provision, I think the greatest failing s are three things: firstly, in a world in which there'll be at least someone who creates a user-friendly website or application that would use such information, Trust data is unavailable; secondly, that when the timetable is altered during times of disruption, the data feeds for live departure boards are not always updated reliably and on time, and that this information isn't available in a machine readable format; and finally, that rail staff don't explain exactly what's happened. If a signal cannot be cleared, all trains have been stopped at a station and control are waiting to see if the problem can be fixed soon before they call out buses, this is what should be announced on trains, at stations and on-line. Instead they'd announce, "Trains have been disrupted due to a signalling problem. Engineers are working as fast as possible (I hope that this isn't true and that they're working as safely as possible). We estimate 60 minutes of delay (plucked out of the air)".

As a graduate or a postgraduate I'd be delighted to work on any technical solutions aimed at solving any of these problems in the future but would any Network Rail, DFT or a TOC assist even if it only meant freely giving out data?
 

jon0844

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It surely wouldn't be impossible for every TOC to be able to load in an emergency timetable (or even a selection) that allows the LDB to 'switch' over at short notice, with minimal fuss, and provide this information to the end user instantly - while removing all the 'old' services that currently sit there saying 'No Report', 'Cancelled' or 'Delayed'.

Okay, if things go SO wrong that the timetable is made up as they go then there's a problem (but that's the least of the problem for the passenger at this stage), but don't most (all?) TOCs have in place a set emergency timetable that they can switch to relatively quickly? I think these are even published way ahead of time in some cases, so why can't this be shown on the information boards, web, mobile etc?

If the industry allowed something like this, it would make a lot of sense and be quite easy to do. I presume all the TOCs load their timetable data into one location?
 
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Nick W

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It surely wouldn't be impossible for every TOC to be able to load in an emergency timetable (or even a selection) that allows the LDB to 'switch' over at short notice, with minimal fuss, and provide this information to the end user instantly - while removing all the 'old' services that currently sit there saying 'No Report', 'Cancelled' or 'Delayed'.

Okay, if things go SO wrong that the timetable is made up as they go then there's a problem (but that's the least of the problem for the passenger at this stage), but don't most (all?) TOCs have in place a set emergency timetable that they can switch to relatively quickly? I think these are even published way ahead of time in some cases, so why can't this be shown on the information boards, web, mobile etc?

If the industry allowed something like this, it would make a lot of sense and be quite easy to do. I presume all the TOCs load their timetable data into one location?

I meant live disruption rather than planned disruption or winter/autumn timetables.

I have noticed that information controller are usually pretty good at cancelling and reinstating services in the database as well as non-stop and special stop orders. Very often however, they'll just "cancel" it at the first station which is good enough for an experienced person to interpret but not for the computerised systems or general public. I suspect that this is a computer interface problem, with there not being a "cancel after" button.

They are atrocious at inserting new services in, and I suspect that there is insufficient computer capability in the railways to be able to do this with ease. Instead it seems they just let the trains go as an when and don't move trains if there's no platforms available ahead. Hence when things go up the spout, the railway becomes a very amateurish affair. Sometimes I feel we did a better job in the days when I played simsig with forum members. Though of course it helped that the signaller was the controller.

I do wonder if it's worth taking out the human element of control and letting a computer take over. The human control would be limited to informing the system which lines are blocked and drivers and guards would be tracked by signing on and off and allocated to train services and the system would do numerical analysis based on passenger data to optimise the recovery. This is something I wouldn't mind putting effort, maybe a few years, into developing. I suspect that implementation would be hindered by those high up in the railway having other ideas about what's best for passengers, and staff feeling that they are being monitored.
 

Metroland

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Hence when things go up the spout, the railway becomes a very amateurish affair. Sometimes I feel we did a better job in the days when I played simsig with forum members. Though of course it helped that the signaller was the controller.

Simsig is a game, in real life its much more complex than that making sure staff (drivers, S&T, MOM, PWay etc) and in the right place and getting information out to everyone, changing things at short notice. Simsig in no way simulates the the reality of third party influence, the shear communications overload at times, or the complex sets of rules are regulations that provide a framework for safe operating. None of which you need to know to play simsig.

Signallers are the controllers in terms of regulating or platform allocation, the only time NR running 'controllers' get involved if there is something more network wide. TOC controllers merely look after set availability and crew diagramming, and late notice timetable changes in association with NR staff.

I'd really advise a visit to a busy IECC to gain some insight into real railway work, it's nothing like as straightforward as most people imagine, nor is it something that can be easily completely automated.

I'm not saying things cannot be improved, or more automation is a bad thing. But the reality of real life is so much 'grey' stuff is involved, which computers are not good at handling, decisions based on weather, resource allocation, faults that have to be handled in such a way as not to cause a safety issue, handling engineering work and disconnection and repair of equipment, interfaces with level crossing, staff on the ground, depots and stations, that involve real people and so on and so forth.

Already all operating staff are highly monitored with everything being recorded, and there are frequent inquires into how incidents and disruption are handled. If anyone is found to be amateurish, they are out on their ear.

Having said that, it might be worthy of investigation, who knows a fresh insight might be a valuable thing.
 
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Nick W

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Simsig is a game, in real life its much more complex than that making sure staff (drivers, S&T, MOM, PWay etc) and in the right place and getting information out to everyone, changing things at short notice. Simsig in no way simulates the the reality of third party influence, the shear communications overload at times, or the complex sets of rules are regulations that provide a framework for safe operating. None of which you need to know to play simsig.
Absolutely, but theoretically, if a line gets blocked, there should be roughly the required number of drivers each side. In the short term, no drivers will be relieved and there's a buffer thanks to drivers being able to work slightly later that will enable taxis to be called. The timetable will no doubt be thinned out slightly and through services turned into shuttles, simplifying the procedure.

Signallers are the controllers in terms of regulating or platform allocation, the only time NR running 'controllers' get involved if there is something more network wide. TOC controllers merely look after set availability and crew diagramming, and late notice timetable changes in association with NR staff.
Indeed, which is a shame because it adds an extra stage in the information pipeline.

I'd really advise a visit to a busy IECC to gain some insight into real railway work, it's nothing like as straightforward as most people imagine, nor is it something that can be easily completely automated.
I can easily believe that.

I'm not saying things cannot be improved, or more automation is a bad thing. But the reality of real life is so much 'grey' stuff is involved, which computers are not good at handling, decisions based on weather, resource allocation, faults that have to be handled in such a way as not to cause a safety issue, handling engineering work and disconnection and repair of equipment, interfaces with level crossing, staff on the ground, depots and stations, that involve real people and so on and so forth.
All that would really be required is to roughly automate the human process and let humans supervise what computers can't do. Obviously we're not going to have robots repairing our railways any time soon.

Already all operating staff are highly monitored with everything being recorded, and there are frequent inquires into how incidents and disruption are handled. If anyone is found to be amateurish, they are out on their ear.
If it can be clearly shown in an incident that passengers weren't informed of a train being about to leave that would speed up their journey by 30 minutes, and that the company ordered insufficient buses such that journeys were further delayed by 60 minutes, would this count as amateurish behaviour or incompetence?

Having said that, it might be worthy of investigation, who knows a fresh insight might be a valuable thing.
I suspect the main problem is that people in charge of the railway aren't aware of what computers could do, and people aware of what computers can do assume the railway already uses them. People I've spoken with similar or greater computing ability to me are horrified at what they hear.
 

Flamingo

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Lets face it, bad news sells papers more than good news does, and it's easier for a certain type of passenger (and journalist) to shout at a "legitimate target" than admit that they might be wrong (or a tosser).

Might it be worth having a sticky for all the inaccurate newspaper articles to be posted in, rather than having a new thread rehashing the same arguments every time?

If it was subdivided into papers / journalists, so a pattern could be seen, it might be useful. And something to refer the editors of the papers to when a pattern develops (and journo's do trawl forums like this for ideas and comments) might be useful in the spirit of accuracy as well.
 

Old Timer

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Ye Gods a University Graduate, still wet behind the ears, and with no Railway experience (apart from playing on SimSig- which of course makes all the difference) purports to tell us how to sort out all our problems in a few sentences, and we are all still guilty of amateurish or incompetent behaviour.

And we should all be worried because a few people whose breath of experience amounts to working with computers are horrified ? Tell you what NickW, rather than them be horrified why don't they for example go away and do something useful - like making our existing PCs and laptops actually WORK ? or making websites that link you properly. Maybe they could go and sort out the various Computer horror stories that Labour kept quiet such as the NHS, Inland Revenue, and Dept. of Ag just to name a few systems that don't operate as intended.

There is an old saying, pot don't call the kettle black.
 

Flamingo

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That a really interesting example of the kind of thing you are up against in the daily job. I work in complaints, and deal with a lot of unsubstantiated complaints against people in my company. Often the allegations are a pack of lies, but they still need investigated ("in case...") which is both costly and expensive and creates internal distrust... easy for people to sling mud, but (whilst I can discipline colleagues who *have* made mistakes) I can't discipline members of the public who are "stirring" <(

Anybody else look at Judge Judy? (well, when you work late shifts, and the morning TV choice boils down to programmes about buying and selling houses, 24 hour news, Jeremy Vine and the Judge it really is no contest... :D).

I've seen cases where public service workers (police usually) sue members of the public for malicious complaints. Sometimes they win as well, and damages are awarded against the complainant.

I wonder if that has ever been done in this country? Any legal eagles on the site able to enlighten us?
 

bnm

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Anybody else look at Judge Judy? (well, when you work late shifts, and the morning TV choice boils down to programmes about buying and selling houses, 24 hour news, Jeremy Vine and the Judge it really is no contest... :D).

Ye Gods! At least try and find something on Freeview, BBC iPlayer, 4od or the like. :roll:
 

tbtc

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Anybody else look at Judge Judy? (well, when you work late shifts, and the morning TV choice boils down to programmes about buying and selling houses, 24 hour news, Jeremy Vine and the Judge it really is no contest... :D).

I've seen cases where public service workers (police usually) sue members of the public for malicious complaints. Sometimes they win as well, and damages are awarded against the complainant.

I wonder if that has ever been done in this country? Any legal eagles on the site able to enlighten us?

I'll have to watch that - so easy for the public to sling mud - sounds really funny if some of them are counter-sued for daft complaints :lol:
 

Flamingo

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My favourite complaint was from a passenger in 1st on a STD class season ticket, who wrote that I was "being officious and trying to catch people out", as "No-one ever checked tickets in 1st class before Slough".
I think she was given an apology :roll:
 

Nick W

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Ye Gods a University Graduate, still wet behind the ears, and with no Railway experience (apart from playing on SimSig- which of course makes all the difference) purports to tell us how to sort out all our problems in a few sentences, and we are all still guilty of amateurish or incompetent behaviour.
If it really was the case that a person's ability or competence was related to how long they'd been in a particular field, the majority of people in the city and other high wealth-creating jobs would be over 50. In additional, I wouldn't be such a left-winger with such strong beliefs in redistribution of wealth, high taxation and state support.

And we should all be worried because a few people whose breath of experience amounts to working with computers are horrified ? Tell you what NickW, rather than them be horrified why don't they for example go away and do something useful - like making our existing PCs and laptops actually WORK ? or making websites that link you properly. Maybe they could go and sort out the various Computer horror stories that Labour kept quiet such as the NHS, Inland Revenue, and Dept. of Ag just to name a few systems that don't operate as intended.
The amount of IT work is so vast that unfortunately not all developers can be as competent as one would like and those that are don't have time to produce an error-free job except where necessary eg military application and flight control systems.

Please do let me know if you have any problems with your PCs and laptops. My laptop certainly isn't error-free, but it gets the job done pretty well most of the time.

I suspect the horror stories you mentioned are caused by: a) the Government going with cheaper firms lacking the expertise resulting in the project actually taking more time and costing more and b) failure to correctly specify, with the help of the people who will be using the system, what the end result should be.

As it stands, there are some very good computer systems the railway has such as the on-line journey planner, showing what can be achieved.
 

tbtc

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My favourite complaint was from a passenger in 1st on a STD class season ticket, who wrote that I was "being officious and trying to catch people out", as "No-one ever checked tickets in 1st class before Slough".
I think she was given an apology :roll:

:lol:

How dare you do your job efficiently - you should be ashamed :roll:
 

Metroland

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I suspect the main problem is that people in charge of the railway aren't aware of what computers could do, and people aware of what computers can do assume the railway already uses them. People I've spoken with similar or greater computing ability to me are horrified at what they hear.

The railways do use a lot of IT, but when push comes to shove they are about people and unpredictable events which does not suit IT applications to an extent.

Certainly in terms of signalling, there are many tools, including automatic route setting. But it's less than perfect, especially during disruption and needs a big helping hand most of the time.

I have no doubt there could be many improvements, some of the systems, are quite old. But, it's a big industry, and nothing can be done overnight, especially cheaply.

It's probably worthy of an investigation of some kind, maybe a project for you (as a Cambridge university engineering grad) but be prepared to hit many problems before you find any solutions.
 

Old Timer

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If it really was the case that a person's ability or competence was related to how long they'd been in a particular field, the majority of people in the city and other high wealth-creating jobs would be over 50. In additional, I wouldn't be such a left-winger with such strong beliefs in redistribution of wealth, high taxation and state support..
Old Chap, you dont need education to work in the City :(

Its like a casino, all you need is sufficient nerve, that is why some of the best Traders weren't from Public school, but like my mate, were from the East End, made good.

Let me tell you why some Railwaymen find your posts so antagonising.

I have been around the block a few times, done most things, seen most things, got away with a lot, got caught once or twice.

One day I was given the opportunity to go on a trip, "won't be for too long" they said, "You'll be going with a chap nicknamed 'Periodical'"

"Really ?" says Old Timer, then a much younger and less wise Old Timer.

"Oh yes" they said, "He is called Periodical because he comes through the door every two weeks."

Now this job was abroad, and off went Periodical to do the donkey work as they say. Now this was a job paid for by the Banks, investment banks, I am sure you know the score. Couple of chaps go and check out how some very poor Railway administration is going to spends, these guys money. All rather simple, in and out so to speak. Hence the nickname.

Now back comes Periodical from this simple little job.

"Piece of cake" says the great man, for he is indeed a very high ranking man, indeed so high ranking that a poor Old Timer felt very intimidated even being in the great man's presence.

"I have done everything, that needs to be done" says the great man, "All you have to do is go over and just finish off what I have sketched out"...Simples as Boris Orloff would say.

OK so off goes Old Timer to this Foreign land, but does he find a happy ship ? No far from it.

The Project Manager, himself even greater than the great man is wringing his hands in despair and worry.

"The man is quite Mad" says the Even Greater Man, "Quite Mad and he has caused something of a rather nasty Political Diplomatic incident, indeed I fear we are to be thrown out of the Country"

Such was the distress.

Now to cut a long story short.

The Great Man had waltzed in, quickly looked around and reached some very quick conclusions, as was his want and way, hence the nickname "Periodical" - Never away for more than two weeks.

He had made his judgements, and these had been discussed in outline with the National Government Minister, who promptly went into paroxyms of rage.

"So, young Old Timer" says the VERY Great Man "You see our dilemma, and YOU of course are the man who will have to defend and present these conclusions, and having done so, you and I, and the rest of the Project Team shall be thrown out unceremoniously, my Country will be scandalised and my International career and reputation shall be destroyed"


Now of course there is reason and rhyme here, so just bear with me.


The Great Man had waltzed in and on the basis of his lack of understanding as to how the Railway REALLY operated, and what was REALLY happening, he came up with a series of conclusions. When I tested these against my own enquiries and conclusions a very, very different picture indeed emerged, indeed a picture that was the complete contrast to what the Great Man had decreed was necessary to enable the Banks money to be lent.

I reported back to the VERY Great Man. "Thank God !" said he, "Now young man you must produce a report that backs this up, and we must present it to the Minister"

"But what of the Great Man?" says a wonderous Old Timer.

"Ah never mind about the Great Man !" says the VERY Great Man, "He is no longer with us, indeed he shall never again be with us".

And thus a report was produced, relationships were maintained, the Banks were happy as was the Minister, and a young Old Timer was given special entry rights to the Country whenever he chooses to return, which he will do one day.

Now these days a much wiser Old Timer travels the World. He goes to Foreign Railways and meets many nice people. He walks out and about and he can see immediately WHAT the solution is !

Indeed Old Timer could become Periodical No. 2

But, he chooses not to do this, so what does he do ?

He goes and rides around in locomotives at all hours of the day and night.

He goes out with minders and walks around buts of yards and sidings.

He talks with people, and he listens.

He takes lots of photographs, and the Railway Company senior Manager;s talk in hushed terms about this mad Englishman, who loves to ride on the footplate, and walk around marshalling yards, and go and look underneath rolling stock and ask to go to wagon repair shops, and go to derailment sites.

And they wonder why he makes friends with the Maintenance Engineer and his men, why they wonder does this quite Mad Englishman, who is so very obviously in love with trains and photography do what he does ? Why does he go out on Renewals at all hours and days of the week ?, what does he get from riding with our tired old tampers, and walking out with our lengthmen when they do track walks ?

But the more Old Timer talks with people, and the more he travels around and listens, the more he realises that what he sees, what is the most obvious solution is not always the correct solution, and he realises that what seems the most obvious is never the obvious and that the people who seem incompetent and stupid are actually very good people who are working hard to make things right.

Most importantly he learns that no matter what it is, it is never what it seems, the solution is never so obvious or as simple as people think from viewing things from the outside

And then some weeks or maybe months later, this crazy man Englishman walks into their HQ and sits down and talks through what he has learnt and what he now understands, and he shows them lots of photographs of what is actually wrong. Most importantly in that room, he gains respect, because he has done the hard work and has understood the REAL problem. Together the real issues are addressed and everyone is happy, especially the Client Railway.


Old Timer learnt this from someone who lost their reputation and ultimately their career because they thought that they had the answer to everything based upon a little knowledge and bugger all experience.

I offer this story to you. You take it as you wish, and do with my words as you think appropriate, even if it is to throw them in the bin.
 

Metroland

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Good post Old Timer.

I've heard a lot of intelligent people in my time say 'I've got the answers', 'It's easy to sort out', 'If only they did this'. Usually they know a little bit, some of the time bugger all.

All I'd say, is go off if you will, go and find out how the railway REALLY works. Not from the point of view of magazines, books, or computer games, or even preserved railways which are nothing like the big boys train set. Go off and spend time with drivers, guards, on stations large and small, in freight yards, in carriage sidings, in S&T and Pway depots, with contractors, signalling centres, in country signal boxes, in electrical control rooms, in TOC control, in loco depots, in management offices. Talk to people and listen, find out what the problems are, then after several months come back and tell us all about it and your plan for sorting it all out.

I strongly suspect all the plans put forward have been thought of before, and dismissed as impractical, too costly, or not needed or will cause other problems. There is a small chance that something useful maybe discovered, but even then it doesn't mean it will be accepted. Just look at the arguments about DOO on this very forum between experienced railwaymen! One side puts plausible arguments forward that it's safe, another says not so. The railways, nay, all industry is full of grey areas like that, there is as much art as science. It's more about people than technology.

In the wider world arguments about genetically engineered food, climate change, nuclear power, left and right wing politics, science v religion are much the same. Again, where something is proven to be safe or right by one person, another will come along and pour cold water onto it. And some minds will never be changed. These are the sorts of problems you will face before you even start to look at a 'techno fix'.
 
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Old Timer

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Metroland
Thank you, and likewise.

I doubt anyone who is given a well thoughtout and sensible proposal backed up with substantiated facts and throughly researched would consign it to the bin.

As you say many of what seem to be the Panaceas to the Railway's problems have been tried not once but many times before.

I recall in the late 1960's/early 1970s a system we tried on the Eastern Region which was supposed to automate traction and train crew.

It did so very well, but the light engines passing one another travelling to opposite stations, together with train crew travelling passenger were somewhat of a problem, when OUR problem was lack of both !

One of the problesm with the Railway is that just like the NHS, we have many and varied computer operating systems that have been patched into one another over the years. Systems such as TOPS were developed to work for a specific purpose but since then the original design intention has been dramatically changed and extended.

Computer systems are a little like signalling schemes - you design your system to suit what you need at the time, always of course retaining certain key base functionalities, however the devil is in the detail, and how the system is tweaked to meet the precise requirements of unique locations.

Foreign railways sometimes have the benefit in that they have had delayed investment so that their systems come from the 1990s rather than the 1960s and are tailored to interface better than a system which originally worked of paper cards placed in a sorting tray.

A Railway I am currently working on has a full blown computersied system that modifies the route timetable on a constant basis. It receives its inputs from the trains via a very sophisticated GPS system, and even the locomotives "talk" to the maintenance controller via satellite with early information of any health problems, hence a Driver will find himself being stopped out of course to pick up a fitter who will start to do a proper diagnosis, whilst the train continues en route, before the Driver is even aware of a problem.

The same computerised systems allow me to sit in the UK and log in to the central despatch system via a highly secure link and look at real time operations from the comfort of my armchair.

Like re-wiring your house however, introducing such systems can be a lot more involved and expensive than at first thought, the Inland Revenue, Probabtion Service and NHS systems being perfect examples, and none of them are really time and safety critical systems in the way that Railway systems are.
 

Metroland

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To end on a positive note (after the alarm bells set up by claiming playing simsig is akin to really operating a railway - trust me, it teaches you to press buttons and a certain amount of regulating, nothing else) if people have got talents in that direction, I'd encourage them to investigate engineering posts. The railway does need techno solutions, but as it's been pointed out, don't expect to change the world overnight.

http://aunz.siemens.com/Mobility/RI/Pages/TS_8027_SignallingSystems.aspx

http://www.invensysrail.com/

http://www.deltarail.com/

http://www.signallingsolutions.com/

http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/indexAtoZ.html
 

Wolfie

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It is those remembered good and bad. I once wrote to Central trains complimenting a member of staff who went the extra mile. But with CT and the wonderful company it was it sent me an apology!:roll: I hope someone read the letter and gave the staff member the credit he deserved. He is still there and still very pleasent whenever he is on the train - he just has gone to the darkside driving. ;)

Funny you say that - I had exactly the same thing happen with Virgin over a Euston station staff member.....:cry:
 
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