Another new ticket format?

[joncombe]

Today I collected an Advance ticket and was surprised to be issued with two coupons again. After the last ticket redesign such tickets have previously now been a single ticket, with tiny writing, showing both the origin, destination, ticket type the booked trains and seat reservations.

However this time the ticket was issued as two coupons. The first in the new style, but with much larger text (similar size to the old design), showing the origin, destination and type of ticket with a comment that it was only valid with a second coupon.

The second coupon showed the seat and train reservations, again printed in large front (so the two reservations took up all the space on the ticket). In addition the reservation card showed not just the time of the booked trains but also the operator. Amusingly, the service operated by Transport for Wales has printed on the ticket as operated by "Arriva Trains Wales" (the ticket was booked yesterday, for travel in March).

Not sure if this was a one-off or if it is another change to the design. The ticket was printed from a SWR machine, of the older style (silver casing). Either way if they've changed the design again it should at least show the correct name of the TOCs given it's valid only on those operators services! I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the data to print (including the TOC name) is stored centrally, rather than in the ticket machine itself? If so it seems even more surprising it is still using "Arriva Trains Wales".

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Today I collected an Advance ticket and was surprised to be issued with two coupons again. After the last ticket redesign such tickets have previously now been a single ticket, with tiny writing, showing both the origin, destination, ticket type the booked trains and seat reservations.

However this time the ticket was issued as two coupons. The first in the new style, but with much larger text (similar size to the old design), showing the origin, destination and type of ticket with a comment that it was only valid with a second coupon.

The second coupon showed the seat and train reservations, again printed in large front (so the two reservations took up all the space on the ticket). In addition the reservation card showed not just the time of the booked trains but also the operator. Amusingly, the service operated by Transport for Wales has printed on the ticket as operated by "Arriva Trains Wales" (the ticket was booked yesterday, for travel in March).

Not sure if this was a one-off or if it is another change to the design. The ticket was printed from a SWR machine, of the older style (silver casing). Either way if they've changed the design again it should at least show the correct name of the TOCs given it's valid only on those operators services! I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the data to print (including the TOC name) is stored centrally, rather than in the ticket machine itself? If so it seems even more surprising it is still using "Arriva Trains Wales".

Can you upload a picture of the tickets? (with identifying details removed)

 

[gray1404]

I have come across this myself a few times for quite a while now. A new style printed ticket but with the reservations printed on a separate ticket. Its happened to me when I have had more then one train with reservations and it tends to be up to 2 reservations per ticket, but printed in the new style. I have also seen the TOC name printed too exactly as described. Nothing to worry about if it says ATW still. Again I had similar with another franchise that changed name but, over time, the name on advance tickets changed too.

 

[joncombe]

Can you upload a picture of the tickets? (with identifying details removed)

Yes, see attached.

I have also seen the TOC name printed too exactly as described. Nothing to worry about if it says ATW still.

Yes I realise that the TOC name is no problem as such, but it does have the potential confusion with occasional travellers who might not know Arriva Trains Wales don't exist any more and when they see a train with a different name on it, might wonder if it is the correct train.

I also think looking again at the tickets there might be another problem. The actual ticket shows mandatory reservations details on "coupon 92039 - 92040". However only one additional coupon was issued, showing both reservations and "MANDATORY RESERVATION COUPON 1 OF 1". Seems some confusion as to whether there are meant to be two or one reservation coupons!

 

[alistairlees]

Not sure if this was a one-off or if it is another change to the design. The ticket was printed from a SWR machine, of the older style (silver casing). Either way if they've changed the design again it should at least show the correct name of the TOCs given it's valid only on those operators services! I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the data to print (including the TOC name) is stored centrally, rather than in the ticket machine itself? If so it seems even more surprising it is still using "Arriva Trains Wales".

This looks like an error by the retailer. There hasn't been any further design change. The TOC data is provided by the retailer to the central database (LSM) that stores ToD tickets ready for collection; it's not held by or determined by the TVM.

 

[Kite159]

One of the TVMs in Andover (the newer card only style which don't offer the full range of tickets) does that when you have 2 or more reserved services per tickets

 

[sheff1]

I also think looking again at the tickets there might be another problem. The actual ticket shows mandatory reservations details on "coupon 92039 - 92040". However only one additional coupon was issued, showing both reservations and "MANDATORY RESERVATION COUPON 1 OF 1". Seems some confusion as to whether there are meant to be two or one reservation coupons!

I got this new style for the first time today, but with mine the (one) coupon which lists the (two) reservations has two coupon numbers. Makes sense to someone, no doubt.

 

[Haywain]

I got this new style for the first time today, but with mine the (one) coupon which lists the (two) reservations has two coupon numbers. Makes sense to someone, no doubt.

I expect that the OP's reservation coupon also contains the two coupon numbers (in the area blacked out at the bottom of that coupon). It stems from the old format when each reservation was issued on a separate coupon.

 

[joncombe]

I expect that the OP's reservation coupon also contains the two coupon numbers (in the area blacked out at the bottom of that coupon). It stems from the old format when each reservation was issued on a separate coupon.

Ah yes you're right. I hadn't noticed that. I assumed the separate coupon numbers meant that it was meant to be on two differing tickets.

 

[Haywain]

Ah yes you're right. I hadn't noticed that. I assumed the separate coupon numbers meant that it was meant to be on two differing tickets.

It's not meant to be on two different tickets/coupons but when the new format was created it had to be compatible with the old format. Under the old format each reservation printed on a separate coupon, so in the new format ecah reseervation generates a coupon number even though they can be combined on one coupon with more than one coupon umber.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Ah yes you're right. I hadn't noticed that. I assumed the separate coupon numbers meant that it was meant to be on two differing tickets.

The railway seems to have a loose affinity between ticket numbers and physical pieces of cardboard. A return ticket is printed over two tickets, except when it's a Travelcard, but both tickets have the same ticket number. And yet an Advance might be printed such that has two reservations printed on it - and thus the one piece of cardboard would have three ticket numbers.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Isn't that format used when more than one reservation is required?

 

[Wallsendmag]

This looks like an error by the retailer. There hasn't been any further design change. The TOC data is provided by the retailer to the central database (LSM) that stores ToD tickets ready for collection; it's not held by or determined by the TVM.

Unless the retailer is also the flow owner that shouldn't have a say in the process unless they have an unaccredited TIS ignoring the specified print formats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't that format used when more than one reservation is required?

I thought you could get two on the single piece format and it only did that for a third one.

 

[Haywain]

I thought you could get two on the single piece format and it only did that for a third one.

I think that got changed to allow larger print for the reservations.

 

[BluePenguin]

This has happened to me before and as in your case I had a few services reserved which did not fit on one coupon. Perhaps this is why they it was decided to put them both on a seperate coupon instead of squashing the text onto one?

 

[trainophile]

I wonder if it’s to make them easier for the TM or guard to check.

 

[Haywain]

I wonder if it’s to make them easier for the TM or guard to check.

I think it was to make them easier to read for everybody. Plenty of people buying tickets found the reservations difficult to read.

 

[_toommm_]

It's also for advances that have multiple reservations - I bought Piccadilly to Aberdeen today, so I got the ticket that says Picc to Aberdeen, then the reservation Picc to Edinburgh and Edinburgh to Aberdeen along with the seats on another in capitals

 

[trainophile]

Well I am finding it most confusing, having all these separate tickets. I have about a dozen journeys lined up... I try to keep organised, and paperclip them together in date order, but tonight I am very annoyed as I seem to have completely lost some tickets for the coming Monday, and have eventually had to buy new ones, now at the highest Advance tiers. In looking for the missing ones I unclipped every little pile in my system of small boxes and painstakingly sorted through them, to no avail. But my biggest bugbear now is that the reservation coupons don't have a date on, just the reference number of the relevant ticket. Don't know if they ever did show the date, but I'm sure things weren't as complicated until fairly recently.

How hard would it be for them to put the date on the reservations? They can obviously manage the time, so why not the date too? Would make life so much easier for those of us whose lives involve being surrounded by piles of tickets!

I had a motley collection of tickets for my journey today too, in the new format. Two of us, two changes, two reservations on one coupon each and one on another each, plus the actual ticket. Combined with the fact that one of them was an Excess so I had the original tickets for that too, I was getting in a bit of a panic trying to keep track of them all. I spent most of the journey until the final train making sure they were in some sort of order so I could produce the right ones if required.

 

[BluePenguin]

Well I am finding it most confusing, having all these separate tickets...

Sorry to hear you have lost some of your tickets and had to pay twice. In future I suggest you perhaps only collect your tickets just before you go on each trip instead of collecting them all at once to save you organising and losing them.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Well I am finding it most confusing, having all these separate tickets. I have about a dozen journeys lined up... I try to keep organised, and paperclip them together in date order, but tonight I am very annoyed as I seem to have completely lost some tickets for the coming Monday, and have eventually had to buy new ones, now at the highest Advance tiers. In looking for the missing ones I unclipped every little pile in my system of small boxes and painstakingly sorted through them, to no avail. But my biggest bugbear now is that the reservation coupons don't have a date on, just the reference number of the relevant ticket. Don't know if they ever did show the date, but I'm sure things weren't as complicated until fairly recently.

How hard would it be for them to put the date on the reservations? They can obviously manage the time, so why not the date too? Would make life so much easier for those of us whose lives involve being surrounded by piles of tickets!

I had a motley collection of tickets for my journey today too, in the new format. Two of us, two changes, two reservations on one coupon each and one on another each, plus the actual ticket. Combined with the fact that one of them was an Excess so I had the original tickets for that too, I was getting in a bit of a panic trying to keep track of them all. I spent most of the journey until the final train making sure they were in some sort of order so I could produce the right ones if required.

Just buy an e-Ticket and life becomes so much simpler.