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Another fantastic day with Avanti

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londonmidland

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What a fiasco on the Liverpool and Manchester services today.

Three trainloads on one train. Looks like the new timetable has just made things worse.
 
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TomG

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Ye gods! No wonder that there's no incentive for TOCs to perform at all....let alone perform well!
I think how much they get depends on how well they perform...so there IS an incentive. Besides, the worse they do the more they need to refund in Compensation!
 

peter166

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And with no management who runs the services?
Is there any management at the moment ? In fact are ther any services to run ? I suppose the same organisation that runs LNER etc DfT OLR Holdings. Can't be any worse !
 
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zwk500

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Is there any management at the moment ? In fact are ther any services to run ? I suppose the same organisation that runs LNER etc DfT OLR Holdings. Can' be any worse !
IIRC the OLR hasn't got the numbers to take on yet another operator.
 

TomG

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Just get rid of Avanti/ First group from the railways pronto & take the cashcow (£6.5m plus any future bonuses) away from their shareholders

A few things people conveniently forget when it comes to Shareholders (which can be businesses or people)

a) They put their OWN money in.
b) The amount they receive over time can end up being less or more than what they put in...it is a double edged sword after all.
c) We don't know the amount of Shareholders, nor how much they got (each).
d) Anyone who has a pension is a shareholder.
e) Most people who own shares aren't ultra-wealthy people with loads of money and assets as the media implies!
 

peter166

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A few things people conveniently forget when it comes to Shareholders (which can be businesses or people)

a) They put their OWN money in.
b) The amount they receive over time can end up being less or more than what they put in...it is a double edged sword after all.
c) We don't know the amount of Shareholders, nor how much they got (each).
d) Anyone who has a pension is a shareholder.
e) Most people who own shares aren't ultra-wealthy people with loads of money and assets as the media implies!
Who for god's sake would want to invest in a failing company like Avanti ? Oh yes they got £6.5 million of free money from the Government for their shareholders. I hope many of them were passengers of Avanti & then they would know what a rubbish company they had shares in. I do hope they've made a loss on their investment !

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Services today on TPE are also a complete fiasco.....50+ cancellations. Oh yes another First group company


See thread in the UK Railway Discussion for details of the misery there.
 
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Halwynd

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How can this be allowed to happen. It shows just how badly the railway in general is out of touch with customer service.

What happened to the passengers who were destined for these stations?

In the case of Wigan, looking at RTT.... a late running service for Glasgow was dispatched at 22:57, but two subsequent Euston - Preston services passed at 23:39 and 23:50 without performing their booked calls. Likewise a Glasgow - Crewe service at 23:19. The last Euston - Glasgow, which was running 90 late from Preston, did not call at Lancaster or Oxenholme, but did call at Penrith.

Is an overtime ban now in place? There is that much disruption and industrial action at the moment I can't keep up!

I image not too many were affected - and of course warnings about travel disruption have been given for some time - but whatever the cause its not a very nice way to treat passengers, particularly at that time of night.

Edit: I thought I'd read somewhere that the RMT overtime ban had been cancelled, but it appears I was wrong.
 
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Sly Old Fox

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Until somebody authorises a payrise for railway staff, things won’t improve. It doesn’t matter who runs the service, it will be exactly the same.
 

Dr Hoo

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I think how much they get depends on how well they perform...so there IS an incentive. Besides, the worse they do the more they need to refund in Compensation!
Who is the ‘they’ who pays out refunds, compensation and so on these days?

I was under the impression that the revenue handed to the government was effectively ‘net’ of costs including such out payments.
 

lord rathmore

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I travelled Euston to Manchester and back last week for first time in ages. Must say I was not at all impressed with Avanti or their Pendolinos. Both trains ran late, seats uncomfortable with a splendid view of the wall. The contrast when I got on a 745 from Liverpool St home was noticeable. Dead on time, window views altogether better experience for Joe public.
 

Irascible

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Just get rid of Avanti/ First group from the railways pronto & take the cashcow (£6.5m plus any future bonuses) away from their shareholders

Haven't noticed anyone complain about GWR for some time. How come they can manage GWR but not anything else?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I travelled Euston to Manchester and back last week for first time in ages. Must say I was not at all impressed with Avanti or their Pendolinos. Both trains ran late, seats uncomfortable with a splendid view of the wall. The contrast when I got on a 745 from Liverpool St home was noticeable. Dead on time, window views altogether better experience for Joe public.
Avanti should be stripped of operating contract and give it to Albellio or whatever its new incarnation is going to be called
 

hkstudent

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Avanti should be stripped of operating contract and give it to Albellio or whatever its new incarnation is going to be called
Problem is: would any operators be willing to take WC franchise given it's in such a bad shape?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Meanwhile, as Avanti often cancel last train with one day notice, do passengers still have right to alternative travel base on stranded condition?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Problem is: would any operators be willing to take WC franchise given it's in such a bad shape?
if the price is right they will and given this govt propensity to spend money when it needs political capital ie Harper coming to Commons to say hes stripped them of their operating contract. Reality is until strikes and industrial action has stopped there is little point doing anything.
 

zwk500

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if the price is right they will and given this govt propensity to spend money when it needs political capital ie Harper coming to Commons to say hes stripped them of their operating contract. Reality is until strikes and industrial action has stopped there is little point doing anything.
The government will want to win the industrial battle first, before farming it out. Don't want a private company just paying to resolve the dispute now, do we?
 

TomG

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Haven't noticed anyone complain about GWR for some time. How come they can manage GWR but not anything else?
Maybe there is a lot more to gossip/get angry about with Avanti rather than GWR? And when I say 'Maybe' there is!
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Maybe there is a lot more to gossip/get angry about with Avanti rather than GWR? And when I say 'Maybe' there is!
GWR are delivering the bulk of their services today unlike there other three sisters which are in a poor state. Upto this spate of industrial action even SWR could be relied upon.
 

LOL The Irony

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I'm currently on the 11:55 MAN - EUS, which is late because the 11:35 was delayed and left 2 minutes before our scheduled departure. It was rammed when I got on at Wilmslow, not helped by being a 9 car.

At least the shop is open on this one.
 

mrmartin

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Looks like currently Avanti are running 2tph from Manchester (so 1 out of 3 cancelled). This is surely an improvement from 1tph? Perhaps it may be better to just run 2tph in the timetable if that's all they can do, but if they have a lot of new staff joining over the weeks maybe it will improve?

Personally I'd prefer a slightly erratic 3tph service to a 1tph service. It's double the capacity even if they can only run 2tph. A 20 minute wait isn't the end of the world given the state of industrial relations.
 

station_road

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Avanti should be stripped of operating contract and give it to Albellio or whatever its new incarnation is going to be called
The same Abellio that runs East Midlands Railway, who many posters seem to think is just as bad?

On Avanti, for the past few months they have virtually no trains from Crewe to Manchester - today, a train has run hourly as planned so far except for the 06.10 (with some delays because of the track problems between Euston and Watford), so that is a significant improvment from the pre December position
 

Bletchleyite

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Personally I'd prefer a slightly erratic 3tph service to a 1tph service. It's double the capacity even if they can only run 2tph. A 20 minute wait isn't the end of the world given the state of industrial relations.

I wouldn't. I value punctuality and reliability above almost everything else - if they say a train will run at 1400 and arrive at 1730, I want that to happen, not one at 1430 arriving at 1900.
 

Andrew*Debbie

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In fact are ther any services to run ?

A few.

Looks like currently Avanti are running 2tph from Manchester (so 1 out of 3 cancelled).


Today looks pretty dismal, especially for North Wales - London. Reasons include faults with trains, shortage of train crew(!) and stuck behind late running train.


 

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Skiddaw

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Haven't noticed anyone complain about GWR for some time. How come they can manage GWR but not anything else?
I imagine it's because GWR services a large section of the London/South commuter belt. Cliche though it may sound, there'd be an outcry of the first order if the service was as pants down there as it is up here. No one really gives a b**ger about us woad-painted northerners.
 

Clarence Yard

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No, it isn’t north vs south or anything like that.

It’s all down to the number of crew they have. SWR and GWR had plenty in March 2020, Avanti and TPE didn’t.
 

mikeb42

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I imagine it's because GWR services a large section of the London/South commuter belt. Cliche though it may sound, there'd be an outcry of the first order if the service was as pants down there as it is up here. No one really gives a b**ger about us woad-painted northerners.

GWR services (on the London-y bit as much as anywhere else) are perpetually late and disrupted. To be fair, a great deal of this is not actually their fault - it's mostly down to the flakiness of the infrastructure despite the vast amounts of money spent on it in recent times.

Nevertheless, it's true that GWR are not the shambles of Avanti. Most trains run, often between the intended origin and destination and while scheduled timings are often more vague aspirations than achievements there's usually some correlation.

However, isn't this mostly just blind luck? As I understand it, GWR recruited lots of drivers (and guards?) pre-Covid - for services which either never materialised or have now been un-existed. The resulting nominal surplus appears to have fallen out as adequate staffing to run the current reduced timetable. So we don't yet see the "Shortage of Traincrew" shambles that prevails on many other operators.

The GWR mainline was a disaster area on Sundays for years pre-Covid with reams of cancellations of already grossly over-crowded trains due to no driver/guard as a matter of course. That also seems to have settled down, presumably for the same reasons. Or has there been some change in the contractual position of drivers and guards and Sundays? Either way, not as bad as it used to be, seemingly by fluke.
 

800001

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GWR services (on the London-y bit as much as anywhere else) are perpetually late and disrupted. To be fair, a great deal of this is not actually their fault - it's mostly down to the flakiness of the infrastructure despite the vast amounts of money spent on it in recent times.

Nevertheless, it's true that GWR are not the shambles of Avanti. Most trains run, often between the intended origin and destination and while scheduled timings are often more vague aspirations than achievements there's usually some correlation.

However, isn't this mostly just blind luck? As I understand it, GWR recruited lots of drivers (and guards?) pre-Covid - for services which either never materialised or have now been un-existed. The resulting nominal surplus appears to have fallen out as adequate staffing to run the current reduced timetable. So we don't yet see the "Shortage of Traincrew" shambles that prevails on many other operators.

The GWR mainline was a disaster area on Sundays for years pre-Covid with reams of cancellations of already grossly over-crowded trains due to no driver/guard as a matter of course. That also seems to have settled down, presumably for the same reasons. Or has there been some change in the contractual position of drivers and guards and Sundays? Either way, not as bad as it used to be, seemingly by fluke.
LNER recruited masses of drivers pre-covid, yet they are in a shambles
 

800001

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LNER employ several people on each train, is there a shortage of other on train staff?
Yes. Plenty of services altered due to shortage of Train Managers.

For example the last Edinburgh to London terminates at Newcastle tonight.

Also plenty of services each day don’t have catering provided for part or all of journey.
 
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