Another City Status thread...

[Ivo]

I've just had a look at this thread that I started back in May, and have found a list of every entrant accepted into the competition for 2012, of which there are 25. Two come from Wales, two come from Northern Ireland and one comes from Scotland; a second Scottish bid was declared invalid (from Dumfries). There remaining 20 are English. It runs as follows:

East of England: Chelmsford, Colchester, Luton, Southend-on-Sea
East Midlands: Corby
Greater London: Croydon, Tower Hamlets
North East England: Gateshead, Middlesbrough
North West England: Bolton, Stockport
Northern Ireland: Coleraine, Craigavon
Scotland: Perth
South East England: Medway, Milton Keynes, Reading
South West England: Bournemouth, Dorchester, St Austell
Wales: St Asaph, Wrexham
West Midlands: Dudley
Yorkshire and the Humber: Doncaster, Goole

(Admittedly the source for this is Wikipedia, but it looks genuine enough to me.)

First and foremost, two weeks ago we had some of the most destructive behaviour in many urban areas of the United Kingdom since the Second World War. How is this likely to affect some of these bids? Certainly, Croydon was hit hard in the riots, and thus may have a tarnished reputation to carry into the competition when four years ago I would have called it favourite. Otherwise, some of the above, as I illustrated previously, are unlikely to succeed for the same reputable reasons, such as Corby. But some places that were thought to be entering, such as Dover and Ipswich, are nowhere to be seen...

Anyway, three months have passed since the deadline, and so far public opinion that I have seen in the media and on the Internet would suggest that this could well be a two-horse race between the two largest towns on the Thames. Reading is the largest town in the country (although the Unitary area has a population of only 140,000 or so) and is developing well; it is a major hub for the south of England and well away from other cities, with Oxford being the nearest. On the other hand, as much as it annoys me the only place that seems even close to Reading is Southend; it has even been suggested in the House of Commons that the nation is "gripped by Southend fever"! Essex is the largest county by population to have no city (to my knowledge, so that may not be true) and the town's bid is much better than previously...

Enough of that, I want your opinions (again). With three months gone, what do you all think so far?

 

[exile]

Perth gets my vote - it was a city from "time immemorial" until deprived of the status in the 1990s.

 

[Greenback]

Perth and Reading are the stand out candidates for me.

 

[Zoe]

Why not give all of London city status? Jacques Rogge in 2005 said that the games of the XXX Olympiad would be held in the "city of London" and London is usually said to be the largest city in Britain even though the current city of London itself is one of the smallest.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Stockport would be my choice.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Perth here too, stunning town.

 

[Oracle]

If you award Bournemouth, do you upset Poole? Until 31/3/74 the former was in Hampshire and the latter in Dorset..now it's more of a Hove & Brighton-style conurbation, both towns being in Dorset.

I am surprised that Guildford is not on the list: it has a cathedral of course!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why not give all of London city status? Jacques Rogge in 2005 said that the games of the XXX Olympiad would be held in the "city of London" and London is usually said to be the largest city in Britain even though the current city of London itself is one of the smallest.

I do not think that Jaques Rogge would have been aware of the subtle definitiory distinction that you have made above with regard to London. Incidentally, as being one from the more northern areas in England, what exactly is the Corporation of London?

 

[martinsh]

I still think it should be Nantwich !

 

[Captain Chaos]

Reading gets my vote! (Although I might be biased towards it. I was born there and have always loved Reading).

 

[anthony263]

I am surprised Reading isnt classed as a city already, but yes it also gets my vote, read an article that someone wanted Llanelli to be a city which caused a few laughs

 

[Greenback]

I am surprised Reading isnt classed as a city already, but yes it also gets my vote, read an article that someone wanted Llanelli to be a city which caused a few laughs

Yes, there was something in the local rag here about that! IIRC it was the suggestion of some local councillor. I laughed until I feared my sides might split!

 

[graham43404]

Bolton gets my somewhat biased vote.

 

[bb21]

If you award Bournemouth, do you upset Poole? Until 31/3/74 the former was in Hampshire and the latter in Dorset..now it's more of a Hove & Brighton-style conurbation, both towns being in Dorset.

I am surprised that Guildford is not on the list: it has a cathedral of course!

As a Poole boy, don't upset me!

Poole has more history and a very unique identity. We do not want a Brighton-and-Hove-esque union for the sake of city status.

Like you said, until 1974 the two towns were even in different counties.

 

[anthony263]

I do think Wrexham should be classed as a city

 

[bILLOO]

Corby... interesting!

 

[snail]

Why not give all of London city status? Jacques Rogge in 2005 said that the games of the XXX Olympiad would be held in the "city of London" and London is usually said to be the largest city in Britain even though the current city of London itself is one of the smallest.

Don't you think the City of Westminster may have something to say about that? That covers most of what people perceive as 'Central London'.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, but there is only one City of London - it has it's onw police service!

 

[Zoe]

Don't you think the City of Westminster may have something to say about that? That covers most of what people perceive as 'Central London'.

I'm not just saying Central London, why not give all of the Greater London administrative area city status?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Am I the only person who thinks that we have too many cities. I thought it was considered more of an honour than a standard...?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One interesting feature is that St Asaph is shown as being on this list to hope to obtain city status. The old connection that no longer exists of diocesan cathedrals is a strange one in connection with St Asaph, who, like Rochester, has a catheral going back many hundreds of years.

The 1911 edition of Encyclopaeadia Britannica shows St Asaph as being a city.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Rochester and Hereford were also cities, until they joined the Medway and Herefordshire/Worcestershire council areas respectively, and had to surrender the status. Hereford has since become a city again, however, Rochester hasn't.

 

[4SRKT]

Perth because it was traditionally a city, and Rochester (*not* 'Medway') for the same reason. Otherwise forget about it. The whole thing is just a load of jumped up towns thinking there's something special about being a city. When places like Lisburn or made up places like 'Brighton and Hove' are awarded city status, you know it's gone too far. The meaningless of it all can be demonstrated by the fact that I myself technically live in a city by virtue of living in Bradford Metropolitan District, even though when Bradford was made a city in the days when this meant something, Shipley was outside the Borough and wasn't brought in until 1974.

As for riots affecting bids, of the 'towns' (Craigavon itself is just a few modern estates in the midst of Craigavon borough, so I presume it applies to the whole local authority area including Portadown and Lurgan) in the list Craigavon has probably had more days of rioting than quiet days in its history, and it still feels able to offer itself up. It is the most awful place on Earth BTW, a sort of Northern Irish Livingston with more Buckfast. Even its name is controversial, named after James Craig/Lord Craigavon, the first Prime Minister of Northern Ireland who famously described Stormont as a 'Protestant Parliament for a Protestant people'. This despite the majority Catholic and often militantly republican population of Lurgan and Craigavon itself. If such a place were to be awarded city status I could well see some established cities campaigning to be awarded town status!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Am I the only person who thinks that we have too many cities. I thought it was considered more of an honour than a standard...?

No, I think that as well. See above.

 

[junglejames]

I'm not just saying Central London, why not give all of the Greater London administrative area city status?

Dont get too excited, but I actually agree with Zoe here! With everything else being boroughs of London, similar to how some of them are now. So Croydon, far from being a city itself, would end up being a borough of London.

In fact, just checked, apparently the town of Croydon is located within the borough of Croydon, which is a London Borough. So all id do is take away the town status of Croydon!!
Dont know if Zoe planned to go that far, but thats how I would do it.
Zoe mentions that the city of London is actually very small. It certainly is, but most people class the city of London to be a lot bigger. I mean, the Docklands arent even officially in the city are they? Plus most of the trains stations are outside the city I believe. To me it seems a bit daft, but luckily joe public makes it a lot simpler than it is officially.

As for the 2012 competition. Perth and Reading stand out above all others.
Id go with Perth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perth because it was traditionally a city, and Rochester (*not* 'Medway') for the same reason. Otherwise forget about it. The whole thing is just a load of jumped up towns thinking there's something special about being a city. When places like Lisburn or made up places like 'Brighton and Hove' are awarded city status, you know it's gone too far. The meaningless of it all can be demonstrated by the fact that I myself technically live in a city by virtue of living in Bradford Metropolitan District, even though when Bradford was made a city in the days when this meant something, Shipley was outside the Borough and wasn't brought in until 1974.

Totally agree!
Id better go and take my temperature, im agreeing with far too many people!!