Annoying unnecessary on-train announcements - a rant!

[Bon Accord]

Certain individuals say that excessive announcements are needed because the general public are lost without them and need to mollycoddled.
Do you not think that by mollycoddling you're making things progressively worse? I would suggest we are.
Really, what is the point of having 2 electronic displays in each carriage listing station stops, terminating station and prominently displaying the next stop PLUS having the auto announcer say the same, quickly followed by the Guard repeating the same again.
A complete waste of time, and very annoying indeed.

 

[trainophile]

Deafening silence though when the train stops in the middle of nowhere and stands there for ten minutes .

 

[starrymarkb]

IIRC the requirements for luggage and suspicious activity announcements have came from the Government

 

[WestCoast]

I however, Do not like when Virgin Trains say "OK, Well if your advance ticket is not valid you will be charged around £75.00". Pointless and just doesn't sound very customer friendly, anybody with half common sense will know that if they have booked an advane ticket then they have to travel on tha train (I know some haven't and have then had their article in the Daily Mail :roll

You would be surprised at how many people think it's OK to travel on a different service despite the ticket stating "booked train only".

The only annoucement I will have a moan about is the onboard PIS on 1996ts on the approach to Stratford when its still a few minutes away you suddenly get a man shouting "THIS TRAIN TERMINATES HERE" and it repeats and repeats it even though we are not there and can't get out!

The Jubilee Line's announcements are good because they are so (unintentionally) funny! You've got the woman with the deep voice (who is supposed to be Celia from NR?) announcing the stations, with another woman announcing the terminus with some bizarre pronunciations (Click) and a shouting man at the end of the journey (click).

(All clips from www.haltestellenansage.de)

 

[Ze Random One]

In my experience, the frequency and nature of announcements on intercity services in the UK is broadly similar to those of DB and SNCF.

SNCF tend to have announcements:
- prior to the train leaving, welcoming those aboard, and announcing the imminent closure of the doors,
- when underway giving the destination and calling pattern, and perhaps reminding people that they should have composté their ticket. They also can make mention of the use of mobile phones and security of luggage,
- there will usually be a separate announcement by the Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits about café-bar, trolley and vending machine services aboard, and
- when you're approaching your destination, they announce it, along with a caution not to open the doors until the train is in the station (particularly if there is platform congestion). They may also list connections and advise that people should look for the "Correspondances" screen on the platform.
Now that sounds broadly similar to the announcements that you find on UK intercity services.

DB have slightly fewer, partly because they have come up with a more elegant solution (and one that should have been implemented here), of putting a computer screen in every carriage giving the calling pattern, and where the train is now. However in Germany, the announcements prior to arriving in a major station can be much much longer, as they will typically list all the major connections available including platform numbers, train numbers and departure times. This is in addition to the monitors in each coach, and the leaflet that is handed out to all passengers which also details the same calling pattern and connectional information. I can't remember if they also announce the bordbistro on DB trains.

Now, I'm not saying that we have it right, but we are not too dissimilar in our approaches from our nearest neighbours, when it comes to on-train announcements. On station platforms, ours tend to be longer, because we don't have numbered trains. It is not necessary to announce every calling point of a train in France or Germany, because you are either:
a. expected to know the number of the train you need
b. expected to check on the timetable bulletin that this numbered train stops where you want, or
c. expected to check the platform monitors (only applies to SNCF, DB only put principal stops on the platform monitors)

There are a few other things that are done on the continent which help reduce the necessity for some of the announcements:
- I've already mentioned train numbers, but it does mean that advance purchase tickets can be marked with "valid only on Train 335", which can help people get onto the right train, and means that the main travel document isn't in two bits like we have now (I, personally, think that the "Valid: BOOKD TRAIN ONLY" with a separate reservation coupon for you to lose is very customer unfriendly, and quite unlike any other travel mode's documents).
- A "Composition des Trains" poster or screen. The West Coast still has the infrastructure on platforms to support something like this (coloured zones), but it really would help if passengers could be pre-stood in the right portion of the platform for their coach. These posters also show where the buffet car is, so you can know long before the train arrives.
The combination of these means that you can shorten or remove the warning about advance purchase tickets, and you don't need to explain the layout of the train (First class is at the rear...)

 

[DarloRich]

Certain individuals say that excessive announcements are needed because the general public are lost without them and need to mollycoddled.
Do you not think that by mollycoddling you're making things progressively worse? I would suggest we are.
Really, what is the point of having 2 electronic displays in each carriage listing station stops, terminating station and prominently displaying the next stop PLUS having the auto announcer say the same, quickly followed by the Guard repeating the same again.
A complete waste of time, and very annoying indeed.

but the fact remains that there are lots and lots of stupid people out there who need guidance and reassurance almost constantly! Perhaps it is up to us sensible people to help them!

 

[BrummyBoy]

CrossCountry are at the opposite end of the scale. Yes, I know the story of Arriva telling their staff to be concise (unlike in VXC days), but to just say "This is the 10:00 CrossCountry service to Manchester Piccadilly, calling at Bristol Parkway, Cheltenham Spa, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Stockport, due into Manchester at 12:59. Next station Bristol Parkway" is not enough for an InterCity service (not to mention the grammar issues ). Those routes often have rare travellers who need more information!

Seems enough information to me

 

[175001]

I'm sorry mate. I hate doing them but its the law. The main ones I do are the stops, and the security announcements that by law have to be done by leaving a major station and every 30 minutes. Other than that, I try to keep my announcements to a minimum. But I agree that some TOC's that have automated announcements can be annoying!
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IIRC the requirements for luggage and suspicious activity announcements have came from the Government

Indeed. They are the law, they are a TRANSEC requirement and if a mystery shopper is on the train and these announcements aren't made, a TOC will be fined.

 

[43021HST]

Actually a lot of TOCs dont go that overboard with announcements, XC are pretty good at trimming the announcements down. I'm surprised though that no one has mentioned SWT and the barrage of announcements you suffer then, also that auto announcers womens voice really gets on my nerves, she sounds so snooty and up herself. When are SWT gonna learn cut the crap and just say what is absolutely needed.

 

[jon0844]

It might annoy the regular travellers, but that's unavoidable.

Don't worry about it - keep on doing the announcements as you're not just helping the clueless, but the people who might genuinely need assistance. Announcements, visual and audible, serve a purpose for the deaf and visually impaired.

Announcements also help at night when you've got little chance of seeing what station you're at by looking at the poorly lit signs (worse on my line perhaps than yours). It's unfortunate that I can probably count on one hand how many drivers have announced the next station on a 313 at night - and that's in the last eight years!

 

[Ivo]

For those who want the end of announcements, conisder this. It is 00:15 and the train you are on is essentialy empty. No-one is in arush to get off, because there is no-one around. You on the other hand are reading the newspaper, because it's either the first chance you've had or because there's nothing better to do (staring out the window is not a valid answer at night). Every time the train stops, all you hear is a bell indicating the doors are unlocked.

Suddenly, you realise it's 00:05 and you're due to get off at 00:06! Courtesy of the lack of announcements, you almost missed your station - and given the time there is no return service to negate the problem!

This very scenario befell me on Tuesday night. I was halfway between Cholsey and Didcot on a 165 and reading the Evening Standard when I suddenly wondered what the time was - and noticed that if I had noticed three minutes later I would have had a problem.

As for SWT, their announcements are fine, apart from one thing. Some of Celia's announcements are a bit disjointed. If you travel on a Desiro on either a Chertsey or Weymouth service, the station list gets to a certain point (either Barnes Bridge or Bournemouth) and suddenly stops! It takes a good 10 seconds for the stations up from these two (so either Barnes or Pokesdown/Christchurch/Brockenhurst/wherever) to be mentioned...

 

[jon0844]

Yes, looking out the window isn't always the answer - especially if you're tired or want to read a paper or just play around with your phone (Angry Birds or whatever). What if you don't use the train very often? How do you recognise the surroundings in the dark, or remember the stopping pattern (is the route map in view where you are, as against the safety posters and general advertising?).

For a 30 minute journey, say, you shouldn't need to keep watch the whole time - or go by your watch (if you happen to know the arrival time at your station), as trains can run early at night (sure, it will probably wait, but it could throw you) or may be running late.

A simple announcement, with the details on a screen, solves the problem. It doesn't have to be stupidly long. Many countries will just say 'Next stop, xxxx', no 'remember to take your belongings with you' and so on - just that.

Nice and simple, but helps everyone. If you're going all the way to the last station and know you'll be woken up by staff before the train goes back to the depot and you want to sleep, get some earplugs - and hope you are woken up.

 

[BestWestern]

Everybody will be thrilled I'm sure to learn that First Gt Western are currently briefing Guards to include in their announcements a warning that customers should take care when using station stairs, and hold the handrail! :roll: A step too far I feel, if you'll excuse the pun. The argument that too many announcements drown out the important information is a valid one, if only the TOC's could appreciate this. Announcements are also only half the answer, as often the PA system on older stock is of a poor quality, announcements serve no purpose to anybody who's hearing isn't particularly good, and half the punters are plugged in to their mp3 players anyway!

 

[causton]

Yes, looking out the window isn't always the answer - especially if you're tired or want to read a paper or just play around with your phone (Angry Birds or whatever). What if you don't use the train very often? How do you recognise the surroundings in the dark, or remember the stopping pattern (is the route map in view where you are, as against the safety posters and general advertising?).

Tell me about it, I was on one of the late KGX-WGC services on Saturday night and some elderly people caught this train (the dispatch staff member whistled, then they came up (I was close behind) and they asked which train to get - and the dispatch person pointed to the train just after he had signalled for it to leave! We all made it on in time though)
...anyway, they were fine with the stops until Potters Bar, afterwards, at BPK they went "is this train supposed to stop here?" and got worried as there was no movement from anyone (because nobody was getting on/off at BPK). Then at WMG, they tried to open the doors on the wrong side and I called "Other set of doors!" They then walked out, up the platform, then the gentleman said "Oh no, this is Welham Green!" and they walked back on - as the door chimes started and the doors started to close.

I had a brief conversation with them and it transpired they were indeed looking for Hatfield.

This is one of the few lines where announcements are needed - despite 313s only getting a "Thistrunisbttodepartmindthedoorsplrs" as the train departs KGX sometimes, apart from a lengthy safety announcement by the driver when I caught a train starting from New Barnet due to engineering works (on the day of the Notting Hill Carnival) which the driver finished as the train pulled into Oakleigh Park!

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

The infuruating northern rail announcer who incencently announced each statition by pronouncing it and then spelling it out letter by letter.

ie: "The next stop will be Lancaster; thats L-A-N-C-A-S-T-E-R; Lancaster the next stop."

Safe to say I have'nt heard him for a while!!

 

[SS4]

The infuruating northern rail announcer who incencently announced each statition by pronouncing it and then spelling it out letter by letter.

ie: "The next stop will be Lancaster; thats L-A-N-C-A-S-T-E-R; Lancaster the next stop."

Safe to say I have'nt heard him for a while!!

Could be worse, Imagine him using the phonetic alphabet! Lima-Alpha-November-Charlie-Alpha-Sierra-Tango-Echo-Romeo

 

[jon0844]

I've only ever been on a few trains where the driver doesn't do the safety bit or the stopping pattern at the start of the journey. But most won't say a word after that (no, tell a lie, they will say when the train is approaching the final stop and tell people to take their belongings with them). The ones that do say something on the route tend to give lots of information, like changing for other lines and even what platform to use (there's one driver in particular who does the lot and always finishes with 'thank you') but they're extremely rare. Is it right that passengers are at the mercy of the driver who either wants to do announcements, or doesn't - as against there being an official policy?

Some trains have CIS, but at night this is rarely used (too much time to set up?) which is silly given how useful it is when it's dark. In fact, it is very important in the winter when you're on a train that is very busy, such that you can't easily walk to a window/door to look out, and it's already dark outside.

ie: "The next stop will be Lancaster; thats L-A-N-C-A-S-T-E-R; Lancaster the next stop."

Safe to say I have'nt heard him for a while!!

Maybe he got a papa, foxtrot, oscar, romeo, tango, yankie, foxtrot, india, victor, echo.

 

[BestWestern]

I've only ever been on a few trains where the driver doesn't do the safety bit or the stopping pattern at the start of the journey. But most won't say a word after that (no, tell a lie, they will say when the train is approaching the final stop and tell people to take their belongings with them). The ones that do say something on the route tend to give lots of information, like changing for other lines and even what platform to use (there's one driver in particular who does the lot and always finishes with 'thank you') but they're extremely rare. Is it right that passengers are at the mercy of the driver who either wants to do announcements, or doesn't - as against there being an official policy?

Some trains have CIS, but at night this is rarely used (too much time to set up?) which is silly given how useful it is when it's dark. In fact, it is very important in the winter when you're on a train that is very busy, such that you can't easily walk to a window/door to look out, and it's already dark outside.



Maybe he got a papa, foxtrot, oscar, romeo, tango, yankie, foxtrot, india, victor, echo.

It'll generally be the Guard doing the announcements, unless you're in a DOO (Driver Only) area, in which case I'm lead to believe that most annoucements will be either minimal or non-existant! As mentioned already, there are government guidelines on the security messages, which are mandatory but often ignored. Most TOC's would expect a Guard to make the basic 'next stop' announcements, although if you're on a local stopper and the Guard is out doing revenue then obviously this often isn't possible. I don't use PIS as our stock doesn't have it, but I believe it's pretty simply to set up, just a code to be entered as I understand it.

 

[Crossover]

I am sure some of the guys on the WMDR Meet could back me up on this when I said we had someone that sounded like the lost member of the munchkins doing the announcements and we all couldn't contain ourselves, we had to laugh.

It was quite funny - was that on the LM 150 from Stourbridge Junction?

<offtopic> Another one whilst on the WMDR meet and at Stourbridge Junction was the automated system that announced our next train at least 3, if not more, times in the time prior to it arriving.

Also generally find it funny when you get the whole "the train now standing at...." when the train is still nowhere to be seen </offtopic>
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All in all I'm generally a fan of manual announcements - they have so much more character to them (provided the person doing them doesn't sound as depressed as all the commuters anyway) and I have heard some interesting and profound stuff in the annoucements.

One thing I do wish they would do, which seems to be sadly lacking in the announcements recently) is a "thank you for travelling with xxxx" - nice bit of customer relations which seems to be lacking. Back at the Christmas before last I had to travel home after work on Christmas Eve and the VT conductor went as far as to say on arrival into Manchester Piccadilly to wish everyone a Happy Christmas

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My wife and I were returning from York to Manchester Airport early in 2010 and we had just pulled into the terminal platforms at Manchester Piccadilly, ready to reverse out for the final leg to Manchester Airport. The train was crowded with holidaymakers going to the Airport.

No-one had said anything to the passengers about any journey change and after five minutes there, there was an on-train announcement saying "THE NEXT STOP WILL BE HUDDERSFIELD!!" Utter confusion reigned, station staff on the platform were hailed frantically and someone ran up to the driving cab. Suitcases galore were being dragged off in total chaos and children were crying. It was like a scene out the Keystone Cops.

What had happened is that it had been decided to cut the train short at Manchester Piccadilly and to make the return scheduled journey from there, rather than the airport. The only trouble was that no-one on the train had made an announcement about that, for reasons no-one would admit to, and the eventual other announcement when it was made caused pandemonium.

This shows that lack of announcements and announcements when made can both have rather dramatic consequences. First TPE wrote a letter of apology about this to all who wrote in to complain, but I bet it was not a happy experiance for those travelling to the airport en route to their holidays who had to drag all their luggage off the train at Manchester Piccadilly in panic measures at that time. My wife and I can laugh about it now, but at the time it was chaotic.

 

[PhilipW]

I'm sorry mate. I hate doing them but its the law.

Which law is this ?

It's very easy to say "It's the law", but is it ?
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On Southern services from Victoria to Bognor Regis and Portsmouth that split at Horsham, I reckon we must be told about 15 times that "this train spilts at Horsham, please make sure that you are in the right portion". I can't tell you the exact number, it's about 2 per stop. I nearly lost the will to live once when trying to count them.

... and that's the law too ? Really

 

[pendolino]

On Southern services from Victoria to Bognor Regis and Portsmouth that split at Horsham, I reckon we must be told about 15 times that "this train spilts at Horsham, please make sure that you are in the right portion". I can't tell you the exact number, it's about 2 per stop. I nearly lost the will to live once when trying to count them.

... and that's the law too ? Really

Of course that's not the law, but it's useful for those passengers boarding at stops between Vic and Horsham. Not everyone gets on at Vic.

 

[175001]

The security announcements are. It's a requirement by TRANSEC, which is a government body. If these security announcements aren't implemented, then a TOC will be fined and I will be given a talking to.

Any other anmoucements are up to the TOC themselves.

 

[pendolino]

It'll generally be the Guard doing the announcements, unless you're in a DOO (Driver Only) area, in which case I'm lead to believe that most annoucements will be either minimal or non-existant! As mentioned already, there are government guidelines on the security messages, which are mandatory but often ignored. Most TOC's would expect a Guard to make the basic 'next stop' announcements, although if you're on a local stopper and the Guard is out doing revenue then obviously this often isn't possible. I don't use PIS as our stock doesn't have it, but I believe it's pretty simply to set up, just a code to be entered as I understand it.

I work a lot of DOO trains and try and make announcements if the PIS isn't working (normally seems to be down to losing the GPS signal). But you have to remember that the driver should only be making manual announcements where it's safe to do so - i.e., preferably not when approaching a red or braking for a station, or any other situation where he/she should be concentrating on controlling the train rather than trying to remember a long list of stops. (Although making a manual announcement with the calling pattern is a good way to reduce the risk of failing to call).

No idea about other stock, but setting up the PIS on a 455/6 takes about 10-15 seconds - enter the 4 digit code from your workings, press send, and confirm the destination and current location; on a 377, the same four digit code gets entered when logging onto MITRAC, much the same way.

 

[PhilipW]

It's useful for those passengers boarding at stops between Vic and Horsham. Not everyone gets on at Vic.

Yes, but endlessly repeating the announcements ad infinitum .... no need at all.

After Gatwick, Three Bridges and Crawley (for example). Just after Crawley would suffice quite amply.

 

[pendolino]

Yes, but endlessly repeating the announcements ad infinitum .... no need at all.

Maybe not for you, but other passengers feel differently.

 

[PhilipW]

Another example is on the stopping service from Chichester to Havant. The announcements never end as there are 7 stops on a 15/ 20 min journey.

.. The next station is Nutbourne
.. We are now approaching Nutbourne
.. This is Nutbourne
.. Welcome aboard the Southern Service to xx calling at a,b,c,d and e
.. The next station is Southbourne
.. We are now approaching Southbourne
etc, etc


All the about within 5 mins

Ridiculous

 

[pendolino]

Ridiculous

Other passengers feel differently.

 

[PhilipW]

Other passengers feel differently.

Do they ? How can we tell ?

 

[Greenback]

The biggest criticism seems to be the amount of unnecessary words employed in announcements. Some of the sentences in some manual announcements I have heard are quite tortuous, and no one would speak in such a way normally. As an example, 'Please take a moment of your time to read the safety instructions. You will find these on a laminated card either at the side of your table or in the seat pocket.' Do we really need that level of detail? Why not just say that safety information can be found at every seat?