Animals in first class - Virgin Trains (VTWC and VTEC)

[All Line Rover]

Do Virgin Trains West Coast and Virgin Trains East Coast enjoy a special dispensation in respect of condition 24.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel? It reads:

"Animals, with the exception of blind or deaf persons’ assistance dogs, may not be taken into buffet or restaurant cars (including first class accommodation with at-seat meals service).​

On weekdays, the entirety of first class accommodation on VTWC and VTWC trains has an "at-seat meal service" on breakfast and evening meal services (and arguably services throughout the rest of the day, if the food offered on these services can be described as a "meal"). Yet the presence of pet dogs is a regularity, not challenged by guards or catering staff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While I don't know if it is policy of VT in this case, a TOC can, without any kind of permission being required, offer a more relaxed term than the NRCoT (e.g. permitting animals), it cannot offer a less favourable one (banning them outright).

 

[All Line Rover]

Condition 24.2 comes across as rather restrictive and possibly a consequence of food hygiene regulation, which is why I am intrigued by this discrepancy.

 

[All Line Rover]

Condition 24.2 also says: "Animals are not allowed on seats in any circumstances".

There is no mention on the VTWC website of special rules regarding first class, but there is a surprising comment that: "We... ask you to not place... animals on seats that could be used by other passengers." So VTWC are happy for dogs to sit on seats - free of charge - that aren't required by other passengers!?

EDIT: Presumably they must be happy about it, as this page wasn't published on April Fools' Day. The second photograph looks delightful. And it's in first class! I'm sure the passenger on the following service will love to have their chicken curry placed on that table.

 

[najaB]

So VTWC are happy for dogs to sit on seats - free of charge - that aren't required by other passengers!?

Grammatically, any empty seat *could* be used by another passenger. They didn't say there had to be someone standing waiting to use it.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Don't some countries only allow mutts on trains if they're muzzled ?
Beißkörbe – Maulkörbe and other associated anti-bitewear seem to be mandatory on a lot of German public transport.

 

[Carlisle]

Condition 24.2 comes across as rather restrictive and possibly a consequence of food hygiene regulation, which is why I am intrigued by this discrepancy.

Same as some pubs serving food allowing dogs in whilst others don't, suppose it depends on what works for the majority of their clientele

 

[humbersidejim]

Yuk. This is such a typic Virgin press release - anything for a wacky photo opportunity.

Many dogs are well behaved, but many are not. In practice, they are advertising people are welcome to bring 2x smelly, slavvering, whining, excitable dogs into the first class carriage. Meanwhile the person sitting opposite tries to consume their complimentary hot pot, while the Alsatians go bonkers over the aroma.

The big difference between say, a pub and a rail carriage, is the potential for a busy service and the animals being in a confined space, cheek by jowell with other paying passengers.

Terrible idea to promote and encourage.

 

[DarloRich]

I met a man with a parrot once. It was in a cage. I also met a man with racing pigeons in a basket. They seemed well behaved! I also sat next to a young lad taking his gerbil to his grannies for a holiday. No trouble. It was in a cage on the table. I managed to eat my butties no problem. Perhaps such things only affect first class. Those of us who travel in scum class mange to deal with these things. I am sure you first class boys can to.

BTW - YET another example of RUK posters getting het up over pointless PR fluff. Really, dont worry about it.

 

[aylesbury]

I have seen many dogs on Virgin trains and no problems occurring rather have a dog in next seat than noisy drunken women off on a jolly or a somebody taking up all of the table with thier computer.

 

[All Line Rover]

All animals except dogs are required to be in a cage. I'm yet to see a passenger not complying with that.

 

[DarloRich]

All animals except dogs are required to be in a cage. I'm yet to see a passenger not complying with that.

I saw a man with a snake once on the tube. That wasnt in cage but did have a bag.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I saw a man with a snake once on the tube. That wasnt in cage but did have a bag.

At least it wasn't on a plane

 

[iknowyeah]

All animals except dogs are required to be in a cage. I'm yet to see a passenger not complying with that.

Saw someone with a kitten in his jumper on a train to Huddersfield once

 

[philthetube]

I met a man with a parrot once. It was in a cage. I also met a man with racing pigeons in a basket. They seemed well behaved! I also sat next to a young lad taking his gerbil to his grannies for a holiday. No trouble. It was in a cage on the table. I managed to eat my butties no problem. Perhaps such things only affect first class. Those of us who travel in scum class mange to deal with these things. I am sure you first class boys can to.

BTW - YET another example of RUK posters getting het up over pointless PR fluff. Really, dont worry about it.

I hope he paid for all but the first two!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I wont allow pets to sit on the seats of my service unless they sit the pet on top of something to protect the seat. Same as feet, shoes off first. This is a discretionary thing based on my judgement of the situation at the time. It is open for the train manager to decide how and what is best to manage their service. Obviously something small or quiet dogs and well behaved dogs like a shih tzu or chiuhuahua wont be an issue however large breeds such as a labrador may not find comfort under the seats/tables etc and lying in the gangway isnt an option. Use of the larger legroom of the priority seats is best for them. Especially large or lively or intimidating dogs such as an alsation or rottweiler theres only really 1 choice. The ballroom.

Guide dogs and medic-alert dogs have exceptions for obvious reasons. They usually need the extra space tgat only first class can offer.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I saw a man with a snake once on the tube. That wasnt in cage but did have a bag.

Back in the early 80's I went to Manchester P on a standard class ticket and as it was a busy train - all seats were taken. I had an attractive lady sit next to me who put a basket on the table , and said "she will settle down soon"...I assumed it was a cat.

Arriving 2 hours later , I complimented her on the docile cat - to be told it was a python and part of her "act" ...

I jumped over the table and beat a retreat. Hate snakes. .

 

[Polarbear]

When I spotted the title of this thread, I thought it may have been in reference to some of the lower life forms (the knuckle dragging troglodyte type ) that occasionally grace our rail services.

I'm pleased to note the thread actually refers to animals in the correct context, which are of course, higher life forms than some of the said "knuckle dragging" types!

 

[wibble]

Condition 24.2 comes across as rather restrictive and possibly a consequence of food hygiene regulation, which is why I am intrigued by this discrepancy.

I don't think there is and regulation on animals in the dining area (obviously food prep area is different) and is at the discretion of the owner.

In Germany a few years ago, I was surprised to see people taking dogs into shops as very few shops in the UK allow non-assistance dogs.

 

[Scotrail84]

Pets are banned from the seated coaches and lounge cars on the sleepers period, including guide dogs as visually impaired customers with guide dogs are required to book in a berth.

 

[boxy321]

My friends often take their Rottweiler (now a puppy but not for long...) onto VTWC. The staff adore dogs generally and he eats better than we do on short journeys.

Rule 24.2 is ignored and probably only complaint led.

I bet they have a pooper scooper on board too.

 

[bnm]

Condition 24.2 comes across as rather restrictive and possibly a consequence of food hygiene regulation, which is why I am intrigued by this discrepancy.

There is nothing in food hygiene regulations that prevents animals being in areas where food is served to the public. Animals should be prevented from entering areas where food is being prepared, handled or stored.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Nice to see Givemea50anyday using his common sense/discression where appropriate. I have a personal bugbear with Cally sleapers policy that assistance dog using sleaper pax must use berths as given the cost this makes the journey unafordable to many and is always something I raise whenever the Scottish govd do their survays.

I doubt if condition 24 could be easily enforced in the case of an area of a train offering complimentarys to seated pax who were seated there for the entire trip but would be far more clear cut in the case of GWR's restaurant car for example.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nice to see Givemea50anyday using his common sense/discression where appropriate. I have a personal bugbear with Cally sleapers policy that assistance dog using sleaper pax must use berths as given the cost this makes the journey unafordable to many and is always something I raise whenever the Scottish govd do their survays.

I think because of allergies and the likes, the inability to move seats to the same extent as on a longer day train, the lack of space etc, it is probably the only feasible policy, however I would suggest that it could be done better, such as by offering those who require assistance dogs (who are in the end a small minority of passengers, so it's hardly going to be financially impossible for CS to do so) the sole use of a berth for the price of a seat. To ensure this is fair price-wise, the process could be that you purchase a seat at the prevailing price then contact CS to have it changed to a sole-use berth for free.

 

[xotGD]

Saw someone with a kitten in his jumper on a train to Huddersfield once

And a ferret down his trousers!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good idea Neil

 

[theageofthetra]

Don't some countries only allow mutts on trains if they're muzzled ?
Beißkörbe – Maulkörbe and other associated anti-bitewear seem to be mandatory on a lot of German public transport.

In Japan there are many places where a dog can only enter if its head is covered- hence why they go for 'toy' dogs and put them in dog prams (I kid you not!)-there are shops that just sell these dog prams with designer ones at ridiculous prices.

 

[theageofthetra]

And a ferret down his trousers!

There used to be a drag queen (more Grayson Perry than Danny la Rue) on the Northern Line who had a parrot on their shoulder.

 

[Antman]

I don't think there is and regulation on animals in the dining area (obviously food prep area is different) and is at the discretion of the owner.

In Germany a few years ago, I was surprised to see people taking dogs into shops as very few shops in the UK allow non-assistance dogs.

France also seem far more relaxed about dogs in shops.

 

[TEW]

All animals except dogs are required to be in a cage. I'm yet to see a passenger not complying with that.

I've seen a lady with a ferret on a lead before on a train, although she was carrying it most the time.