Anglia LHCS information

[03_179]

Evening all,

Hope someone can help with the following.

AR01–AR13 The Greater Anglia Push/Pulls sets.
Can anyone give me the formations of the vehicles please?
From when to when did the DBSOs run?

The DBSOs were replaced by the 82xxx DVTs. When were these replaced?
Also when were the MkIIs replaced by MkIIs? (c.2004
Does anyone have the formations for these as well please?

I have some info from here> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_Brake_Standard_Open

Thanks in advance,

 

[JonathanH]

Can anyone give me the formations of the vehicles please?
From when to when did the DBSOs run?

I didn't get the impression that they were absolutely fixed formations over time as individual vehicles would be switched out.

I think the intended formation was, from the Norwich end, although other buffet types were also used (RMB, RFB etc)
DBSO-3TSO-3TSO-RFM-2FO-Loco

The first three TSOs were high density 68xx vehicles, formerly first class. The next three TSOs were table seated in the usual Mark 2e / 2f manner.

The last DBSO was still running at the end of 2006, although with Mark 3s otherwise - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/28-10-2006-railchat-ipswich-drinks-ned-sesh.10181/

Also when were the MkIIs replaced by MkIIs? (c.2004
Does anyone have the formations for these as well please?

They were formed
DBSO-6TSO-RFM-2FO-Loco (with later the RFM conversion to TSOB)

There are some formations listed on the archive of the abrail website at various snapshot points - see - but again not kept in fixed formations. (I won't quote it as it isn't really conclusive.)
https://web.archive.org/web/20160313134547fw_/http://www.abrail.co.uk/lhcsstockformations.htm

 

[Harpo]

Going back to the start of the 1990s, there were ten full DBSO sets plus assorted overhaul & maintenance cover vehicles. Nine sets were needed in traffic and the tenth came off maintenance at Crown Point on a Friday so that the 15.55 Liv St to Ipswich and return could both run to/from Norwich.

At that time, two sets had a BG at the London end (vice a country end TSO) for the Parkestons. The very first Mk3s were restaurant cars circa 1994. At that time the Mk1 buffets ran coupled to dedicated TSOs modded to supply mains power tapped from their MA set to power the buffet’s sandwich chiller cabinets. Including the smoking vehicles, each set needed around 7 or 8 different vehicle types.

 

[03_179]

Thanks All

 

[Magdalia]

At that time, two sets had a BG at the London end (vice a country end TSO) for the Parkestons.

My recollection is that, prior to the arrival of the MarkIII buffets, it was the Parkeston sets that had the RMBs.

 

[Strathclyder]

Seem to recall that one DBSO (I want to say 9710) recieved ONE livery, but it wasn't a 'proper' repaint - IE vinyls were used - and still carried it's InterCity livery underneath.

As @JonathanH notes, the DBSOs lasted until late 2006 when enough DVTs were available to replace them. During this 'transition' period, you could often see a Anglia-livered DBSO attached to a rake of ONE-liveried Mk3s as illustrated below (linked images copyright of Flick's John Carter & Ryan Hayward respectively) or a ONE-liveried 90 working with a full rake of Anglia-livered Mk2s.

06-16 DBSO 9709 (1400 Norwich-London Liverpool St) Ipswich

Explore John Carter 1962's 78125 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

90006 Ipswich 26/10/04 - 1P31 1100 Norwich to London Liverpool Street

One Railways 90006 'Roger Ford' slows for the scheduled stop at Ipswich station on Tuesday 26th October 2004. The Class 90 locomotive, sporting the original darker shade of One Railways livery, leads the 1P31 1100 Norwich to London Liverpool Street service. This period of time along the Great...

www.flickr.com

 

[03_179]

Thanks to all who have commented.

Someone here said: "The first three TSOs were high density 68xx vehicles, formerly first class. The next three TSOs were table seated in the usual Mark 2e / 2f manner."
Does anyone have those vehicle numbers that could have been used please?

I have a few old Notebooks which have had either faded or have been damp/water damaged (found when a loft conversion was being done) and I am trying to work through them and match real numbers to what's on the old pages.

I'm trying to match up against these trips:
09/07/1988 - 1P50 LST-NRW 86234 Providing the power (31431 took the train on to GYM).
16/07/1988 - 1P45 NRW-LST 86260 providing the power (31250 GYM-NRW).

With DBSOs?
24/09/1994 - 1P10 LIV-NRW 86220 providing the power.
25/09/1994 - 1P31 NRW-LST 86230 providing the power.

21/08/1999 - 1P08 LST-NRW 86232 providing the power.
22/08/1999 - 1P47 NRW-LST 86237 providing the power.

DVTs era with MkIIIs.
18/07/2015 - 1P06 LST-NRW 90003 providing the power.
18/07/2015 - 1P14 NRW-LST 90014 providing the power.

01/06/2016 - 1P12 LST-NRW 90001 providing the power.

05/04/2017 - 1P12 LST-NRW 90012 providing the power.
05/04/2016 - 1P43 IPS-LST 90002 providing the power.

11/10/2018 - 1P14 LST-IPS 90006 providing the power.
11/10/2018 - 1P39 IPS-LST 90015 providing the power.

What were the MkIIs & DVTs that were allocated to the Anglia area during this time.

Some old Platform 5 books of mine seem to have "disappeared".

Many thanks to anyone that can assist

 

[Harpo]

Thanks to all who have commented.

Someone here said: "The first three TSOs were high density 68xx vehicles, formerly first class. The next three TSOs were table seated in the usual Mark 2e / 2f manner."
Does anyone have those vehicle numbers that could have been used please?

6800-6826 is the range I’ve seen quoted but possibly not every vehicle in that number range. Clearly not enough for three in every single set.

These vehicles were previously high density TSO commuter rakes converted from mk2f FOs. One set came from the MML and two from the ECML. I had only remembered one rake’s arrival.

InterCity Anglia (& Gatwick) referred to them unofficially as mk2g but officially they remained 2f.

 

[hexagon789]

Someone here said: "The first three TSOs were high density 68xx vehicles, formerly first class. The next three TSOs were table seated in the usual Mark 2e / 2f manner."
Does anyone have those vehicle numbers that could have been used please?

6800-6826 is the range I’ve seen quoted but possibly not every vehicle in that number range. Clearly not enough for three in every single set.

I may be mistaken, but I had thought it was two high-density TSOs rather than three per set.

Though I think a list of Mk2 set formations I saw some years ago, had a couple of sets with three, but it might have been more that they were available rather than booked as the third TSO behind the DBSO.

 

[Helvellyn]

6800-6826 is the range I’ve seen quoted but possibly not every vehicle in that number range. Clearly not enough for three in every single set.

These vehicles were previously high density TSO commuter rakes converted from mk2f FOs. One set came from the MML and two from the ECML. I had only remembered one rake’s arrival.

InterCity Anglia (& Gatwick) referred to them unofficially as mk2g but officially they remained 2f.

It was 6800-6829, thirty in total. They were intended for two LHCS sets each on the MML and ECML (St Pancras - Derby and King's Cross Peterborough). I think the MML sets ended first, then the ECML ones. Supposedly weren't popular with passengers who preferred to cram onto HSTs and IC225s instead.

They were fitted with IC80 seating (as used on the APT) and whilst refurbished to the same standard as the Mark 2F and Mark 3 fleets they had a variation of the 'Red Dogger' InterCity Standard Class moquette due to the fact that being a different seat design (compared to the IC70) they needed different sized seat covers, so the different design was to aid maintenance staff.

 

[Strathclyder]

Haven't seen too many images of Anglia 86s attached to a full rake of Mk3s - not really a surprise given they were well on the way out when the ex-Virgin Mk3s began arriving in bulk - this is about the best I've been able to find (photo copyright of Flickr's Ian/Mintcake1972).

86232

Crown Point Depot 23rd July 2004

www.flickr.com

 

[ge-gn]

When did the DBSOs start. I can recall travelling in AC mk2s with wood panelling and blue seats (mk2d??), but I think these may have gone when the DBSOs came in? Memory getting hazy.

 

[Harpo]

When did the DBSOs start. I can recall travelling in AC mk2s with wood panelling and blue seats (mk2d??), but I think these may have gone when the DBSOs came in? Memory getting hazy.

I think the DBSOs had started on the GE by around 1990? Certainly, by 1991 all sets were DBSO and the term ‘de-configured’ set was in daily use!

I seem to recall that there was also a drop dead date at Liverpool Street with one of the redevelopment phases abolishing the loco holding sidings.

 

[hexagon789]

I think the DBSOs had started on the GE by around 1990? Certainly, by 1991 all sets were DBSO and the term ‘de-configured’ set was in daily use!

I seem to recall that there was also a drop dead date at Liverpool Street with one of the redevelopment phases abolishing the loco holding sidings.

1990, certainly ScotRail had finished with them in May that year with most push-pull sets gone by April.

I think the first DBSO may have transferred in Mid-1989 for training though, but the bulk moving December 1989 to April 1990.

 

[JonathanH]

I can recall travelling in AC mk2s with wood panelling and blue seats (mk2d??), but I think these may have gone when the DBSOs came in?

There was a Mark 2d in the formation of a train otherwise formed on Mark 2fs in 1992 that I travelled on.

The release of the aforementioned 68xx Mark 2fs from their original duties, and more efficient diagramming on the West Coast after DVTs arriving, displacing conventional Mark 2fs, allowed the Mark 2ds to be replaced. The DBSOs will have initially worked on Anglia with Mark 2ds, having replaced Mark 2d BSOs.