Anglia DMU fleet before 2005

[90sWereBetter]

I was wondering how the Anglia region's DMU fleet was formed between the early 1990s and the mid-2000s.Looking on Flickr (a reliable medium if there ever was one!), it seems like Norwich Crown Point received a batch of almost new 156s in the early 1990s to clear out 1st generation DMUs, but these didn't last very long before they were replaced with 150s and 153s. The 156s always seemed suited to the Wherry Lines/Bittern Line/East Suffolk et al, so it seems surprising Regional Railways would send them away in favour of 150s with their commuter interior, does anyone know the rationale for the swap, or roughly when this was in the 1990s? Conversely, I'm guessing this is why the decision was reversed in 2005 with 156s replacing the 150s.

On a related tangent, when did the last 101s and 105s run in the Anglia region?

 

[JonathanH]

Looking on Flickr (a reliable medium if there ever was one!), it seems like Norwich Crown Point received a batch of almost new 156s in the early 1990s to clear out 1st generation DMUs, but these didn't last very long before they were replaced with 150s and 153s.

Not quite though. The first 156s went to Norwich for longer distance services, eg Norwich to Liverpool and were replaced by 158s. At that point there were still some heritage units in Anglia.

101653 Stracey Arms 29 August 1992

The 150s and 153s came to Anglia in reflection that the journeys to Sheringham, Great Yarmouth, Lowestoft and Felixstowe were local journeys, and 156s were better used on slightly longer routes.

The later swap of 150s for 156s reflected a need for more commuter units in the West Midlands.

 

[StephenHunter]

They had 170s that operated services into London Liverpool Street.

 

[JonathanH]

.

 

[StephenHunter]

That is in a later period not relevant to this discussion about the changes in the 1990s.

They operating in the latter part of the 1990s.

 

[JonathanH]

They operating in the latter part of the 1990s.

Yes, sorry, I re-read the title, and recognise that they did operate before 2005. However, I note that it isn't really relevant to the OP's question.

 

[randyrippley]

Not quite though. The first 156s went to Norwich for longer distance services, eg Norwich to Liverpool and were replaced by 158s. At that point there were still some heritage units in Anglia.

the 156s worked to Liverpool / Blackpool / Barrow-in-Furness from East Anglia via Ely, Nottingham, Sheffield, Piccadilly

 

[JonathanH]

the 156s worked to Liverpool / Blackpool / Barrow-in-Furness from East Anglia via Ely, Nottingham, Sheffield, Piccadilly

Yes, and to Ipswich and Colchester on those routes as well. However, I suspect the point is that they also had fill in turns on the more local services as well during that period.

 

[Magdalia]

On a related tangent, when did the last 101s and 105s run in the Anglia region?

Cravens finished in 1986 apart from the green set which lasted until 1988.

MetCams lasted until 1992, including the NSE sets that worked the Kings Lynn trains immediately prior to electrification.

Anyone talking of class 101s or class 105s immediately revealed themselves to be not Anglian.

 

[JonathanH]

Looking at stock list books from the time, it seems that the heritage units were cleared from Anglia by around the end of 1992, by 153s. 156401-156408 were allocated to Norwich through to 1994, being swapped with 150/2s from Tyseley.

This would have been in the run up to privatisation. I guess there was a need to allocate the appropriate units to each operation taking into account services operated, likely lease costs and subsidies. 150/2s were presumably slightly cheaper for the stand alone Anglia franchise to operate.

I had a Saturday in East Anglia in September 1995. It did seem that 150s generally operated the Norwich services to Sheringham, Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft with 153s mainly working routes out of Ipswich, although I also had a 150 on an Ipswich service. There was no Norwich to Cambridge service at that time, with 158s operating Norwich to Liverpool.

 

[Magdalia]

156401-156408 were allocated to Norwich through to 1994, being swapped with 150/2s from Tyseley.

These were the RETB fitted units working the East Suffolk line from 1992, replacing the MetCams.

 

[JonathanH]

These were the RETB fitted units working the East Suffolk line from 1992, replacing the MetCams.

So, did the East Suffolk get traded down to 153s when the 156s went away?

 

[ScottGallagher]

I recall reading in one of the rail mags during the Anglia days that pacers were briefly considered for some of the branches as they were cheaper to lease...

 

[rick_suffolk]

So, did the East Suffolk get traded down to 153s when the 156s went away?

It was mix of 150s and 153s. My experience was more 150s.

 

[Helvellyn]

Looking at stock list books from the time, it seems that the heritage units were cleared from Anglia by around the end of 1992, by 153s. 156401-156408 were allocated to Norwich through to 1994, being swapped with 150/2s from Tyseley.

This would have been in the run up to privatisation. I guess there was a need to allocate the appropriate units to each operation taking into account services operated, likely lease costs and subsidies. 150/2s were presumably slightly cheaper for the stand alone Anglia franchise to operate.

Some of the 150/2s came from Newton Heath, including one that was repainted from Merseyrail colours into Regional Railways. Norwich had gained some refurbished 101s and I think the 150/2s came in to displace those (and concentrate them in the North West and Scotland only).

 

[KevinTurvey]

The Liverpool to Norwich trains went to 156's from summer 1988, although it wasn't an hourly service then. By about 1992 they had gone to 158's. From about 2000 for about 6/7 years (until the demise of Central Trains) the trains on the Liverpool route were largely 170's on both the Norwich, and also Stanstead trains until the 350's came out and the service cut back to Birmingham, and back to 158's on the Norwich trains.

 

[Taunton]

On a related tangent, when did the last 101s and 105s run in the Anglia region?

And even more of a tangent, the Anglia area was the first significant dmu deployment in the country in 1955-56, after some pioneer operations elsewhere a year or so beforehand. It used the "yellow diamond" initial fleet, both by Derby Works and by Met-Cam. The latter are sometimes mistaken for 101s, they used broadly the same bodyshell but had high level multiple connections under the driving windows, as opposed to the later blue square cars having these at bufferbeam height. From Norwich and Cambridge bases they covered pretty much the whole of the Great Eastern territory. Lasted well for around 15 years, until they were declared non-standard, a number of the lines were closed and the rest were replaced by "blue square" cars from elsewhere.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Anyone talking of class 101s or class 105s immediately revealed themselves to be not Anglian.

I'm a Londoner, TOPS all the way here

Thanks for all the replies, so it seems the 156s only ever appeared on the local services if one was going spare. I remember the 150s and 153s as a child on the Wherry Lines, when the 150s received Anglia Railways livery in the early 2000s 6 year old me thought they were new.

An adjacent question, were the 170s a franchise commitment by Anglia Railways to expand the local fleet?

 

[hexagon789]

An adjacent question, were the 170s a franchise commitment by Anglia Railways to expand the local fleet?

I thought the 3-cars were to double the London-Norwich service and the later order for 2-cars for the then new regular Norwich-Cambridge service.

 

[Magdalia]

so it seems the 156s only ever appeared on the local services if one was going spare.

No. Class 156s were booked on the East Suffolk from 1992 replacing the MetCams.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I thought the 3-cars were to double the London-Norwich service and the later order for 2-cars for the then new regular Norwich-Cambridge service.

Weren't the three cars originally ordered for the short lived Basingstoke service via the North and West London lines?

 

[Clarence Yard]

I thought the 3-cars were to double the London-Norwich service and the later order for 2-cars for the then new regular Norwich-Cambridge service.

The 3 cars were for the through trains off Yarmouth, Lowestoft and Bury as well as the London-Norwich doubling and the Ipswich-Basingstoke. They were late being delivered and class 322 units had to fill in on the Norwich trains. When some 170 services to Norwich went 86 & Mk 2, this helped provide the initial units for Hull Trains.

The 2 car sets were indeed procured for the successful Norwich-Cambridge service, funded through an SRA RPP scheme.

The only other unit that came to Anglia on lease in the 1997-2004 period was 150245, which became spare from Northern iirc, and was acquired to provide enough power to put on two extra return trips between Ipswich-Cambridge and two extra return trips between Ipswich and Peterborough, both lines not having a very good service up to that point. That was another RPP scheme and was hugely successful, both lines seeing exponential passenger growth as a result.

Anglia put a lot of effort into its local services in that period.

 

[hexagon789]

Weren't the three cars originally ordered for the short lived Basingstoke service via the North and West London lines?

The 3 cars were for the through trains off Yarmouth, Lowestoft and Bury as well as the London-Norwich doubling and the Ipswich-Basingstoke. They were late being delivered and class 322 units had to fill in on the Norwich trains. When some 170 services to Norwich went 86 & Mk 2, this helped provide the initial units for Hull Trains.

The 2 car sets were indeed procured for the successful Norwich-Cambridge service, funded through an SRA RPP scheme.

The only other unit that came to Anglia on lease in the 1997-2004 period was 150245, which became spare from Northern iirc, and was acquired to provide enough power to put on two extra return trips between Ipswich-Cambridge and two extra return trips between Ipswich and Peterborough, both lines not having a very good service up to that point. That was another RPP scheme and was hugely successful, both lines seeing exponential passenger growth as a result.

Anglia put a lot of effort into its local services in that period.

I forgot about Crosslink.

 

[JonathanH]

I thought the 3-cars were to double the London-Norwich service and the later order for 2-cars for the then new regular Norwich-Cambridge service.

Anglia started off using 317s to compete on London to Ipswich, then used the 170s to run back from Norwich, with the extensions mentioned.

Thanks for all the replies, so it seems the 156s only ever appeared on the local services if one was going spare. I remember the 150s and 153s as a child on the Wherry Lines, when the 150s received Anglia Railways livery in the early 2000s 6 year old me thought they were new.

I think that the local fleet at some point in 1993 was 153s and 156s only, after the last of the heritage units went away, with there then being a 150 for 156 switch later that year or in early 1994.

 

[RuddA]

I think that the local fleet at some point in 1993 was 153s and 156s only, after the last of the heritage units went away, with there then being a 150 for 156 switch later that year or in early 1994.

That's roughly how I remember it.
I started travelling from North Walsham to Norwich daily in 1993 and I believe there were a few class 101s still running before being replaced by 156s. I thought the 156s lasted a while longer before being swapped for 150s, and feeling disappointed when that swap occurred.

 

[Magdalia]

I think that the local fleet at some point in 1993 was 153s and 156s only, after the last of the heritage units went away, with there then being a 150 for 156 switch later that year or in early 1994.

I have been checking what is in Railway Observer. You are right, there was a brief period of class 153/156 between May 1993 and early 1994.

156401/402/404-408 replaced the 3 car MetCams in March 1992, mainly working the East Suffolk. 156403 was out of traffic with accident damage.

The 2 car MetCams finished in May 1993, replaced partly by 156403/409-411 and partly by some class 153s. At this time the class 156 workings included Sudbury.

The Anglia Railways class 150 fleet mainly arrived in early 1994, plus a few more class 153s, with the class 156s moving out to Tyseley.

 

[Taunton]

We had a discussion a while ago about the railway shots in the "Lovejoy" television series, filmed at Chappel & Wakes Colne on the Sudbury branch in 1992-94, which managed to get both a 101 and a 153 in the programme, being filmed at the changeover time.

Lovejoy - "Somewhere over the Rainbow" episode

Anyone know where the scenes at "Bigbury on Sea" station were actually taken. (11mins, 23 secs on film clip). Lead character 'Lovejoy' (played by Ian McShane) is seen arriving on a single carriage (Regional Railways?) 153 unit. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x58y57l

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm a Londoner, TOPS all the way here

Thanks for all the replies, so it seems the 156s only ever appeared on the local services if one was going spare. I remember the 150s and 153s as a child on the Wherry Lines, when the 150s received Anglia Railways livery in the early 2000s 6 year old me thought they were new.

An adjacent question, were the 170s a franchise commitment by Anglia Railways to expand the local fleet?

There were a small number of services allocated 156/158. An early morning Great Yarmouth - Liverpool service existed into privatisation. But the 158 would have stood at Crown point otherwise. I am sure unit was used to Lowestoft was well before it was needed for the main services.