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And the Thameslink winner is...

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LexyBoy

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Siemens, according to Railway Eye:

RAIL PASSENGERS TO BENEFIT FROM 1,200 NEW CARRIAGES

Rail passengers are set to benefit from less crowded and more frequent trains after Rail Minister Theresa Villiers today announced the next stage in a plan to build around 1,200 new rail carriages. The carriages will be used on the busy Thameslink route, allowing existing Thameslink carriages to be redeployed to relieve over-crowded rail routes across the country.

The £6bn Thameslink upgrade - of which the new carriages are a crucial part - will almost double the peak-time capacity on Thameslink's core central London section, allow longer trains to run and provide new fast and frequent London connections to towns and cities both north and south of the capital. The trains will also be lighter, more reliable and more energy efficient. The first new carriages will arrive in 2015.

Siemens Plc and XL Trains – a consortium comprising of Siemens Project Ventures GmbH, Innisfree Ltd and 3i Infrastructure Plc - have been appointed preferred bidder to build, own, finance and maintain the new trains. Siemens is already one of the leading suppliers of trains on British railways and employs around 16,000 people in the UK. The contract will create up to 2,000 new UK jobs. This includes work being created at Siemens' factory in Hebburn, Tyne and Wear, as well as in the rail industry supply chain. It also includes jobs at two maintenance depots for the new trains which, subject to planning permission, will be built at Three Bridges near Crawley and at Hornsey in the London Borough of Haringey. The Thameslink infrastructure works will employ an additional 3,000 people at the height of construction.

Theresa Villiers said:

“This is a major step forward for the long-awaited Thameslink Programme which will make life better for thousands of commuters. Today’s announcement is further proof of the Government’s commitment to investing in Britain’s future. Despite the pressure on budgets resulting from the need to tackle the deficit, we remain fully committed to the Thameslink upgrade which will dramatically improve journeys for commuters and boost the economy.

“The announcement of Siemens Plc and XL Trains as preferred bidder for this contract represents the best value for money for taxpayers. It will create around 2,000 new jobs and will provide Thameslink passengers with modern, greener and more reliable trains.

"The new trains are a major part of the Government’s commitment to introduce an additional 2,100 carriages on to the rail network by 2019. Once the new trains are delivered, current Thameslink rolling stock becomes available to improve rail services in the North West of England, the Thames Valley and other areas yet to be confirmed.

"The Thameslink Programme includes major improvements to central London stations such as Blackfriars, Farringdon and London Bridge. It will reduce crowding by almost doubling capacity on the central section of one Britain's busiest railways. Passengers will also get the benefit of a new generation of electric commuter trains operating at metro-style frequency levels during the morning and evening peaks through the central section."

Not sure what I make of this - personally I have a slight preference for the Electrostar design, but either way it's good to see some move movement! Whatever we get has got to be better than the current rolling stock!
 
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richa2002

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Really? I think things could be a lot worse than the current stock!
 

OxtedL

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This is likely to affect me, so I'll just say that whilst Siemens looks like a good idea from the point of view of swiftness of getting through the core (which the DfT will have been obsessing about), if they sound as annoying as the 444s and 450s then I will probably go mad. Sound travels a long way around here...
 

Mike395

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Really? I think things could be a lot worse than the current stock!

I quite like the 377/5s aside from the seating layout (which is to Southern's spec, not FCC's) - I think it'd be nice to get some trains that are purpose-built for the TL route, rather than owned by Southern or another TOC :) (remember, the 377/5s were always meant as a stopgap for FCC until they got a new-build set of EMUs)
 

BestWestern

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I quite like the 377/5s aside from the seating layout (which is to Southern's spec, not FCC's) - I think it'd be nice to get some trains that are purpose-built for the TL route, rather than owned by Southern or another TOC :) (remember, the 377/5s were always meant as a stopgap for FCC until they got a new-build set of EMUs)

I think opting for either the Desiro or Electrostar products was the right way to do things, though I'd have thought Electrostars would have made more sense in view of offering some degree regional standardisation. Got to be better than a grotty 319 though!
 

sprinterguy

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Hooray for the Desiro City! Thameslink should hopefully see its’ new trains delivered on time and with minimal technical issues by choosing Siemens over the Bombardier option, who’s’ track record isn’t exactly spotless at the moment as concerns train deliveries (Although they do build an awful lot of trains, so things are bound to go wrong occasionally). And it’s also going to provide additional jobs back up my way in the north east by the looks of things, so it’s good news all round.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I think opting for either the Desiro or Electrostar products was the right way to do things, though I'd have thought Electrostars would have made more sense in view of offering some degree regional standardisation. Got to be better than a grotty 319 though!

Remember your "grotty 319s" will suddenly be treated as wonderful "new trains" when they cascade to the North West and Thames Valley for another 20 years service. Lord Adonis promised refurbishment with air conditioning but I'll not hold my breath.

Got to be better then a grotty Pacer though!

Statement now on DfT website:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/statements/villiers-20110616
 
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LexyBoy

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Remember your "grotty 319s" will suddenly be treated as wonderful "new trains" when they cascade to the North West and Thames Valley for another 20 years service. Lord Adonis promised refurbishment with air conditioning but I'll not hold my breath.

Got to be better then a grotty Pacer though!

Better than a Pacer certainly, but quite a step down from the Turbos for the Thames Valley! I'm sure that they will be welcomed for the extra capacity on peak services, but even with a refurb they won't be great internally (though at least they're be quieter). They also just look very dated outside, very brutalist.
 

richa2002

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Grotty 319s? I think they're in pretty good nick really, it'll be sad to see them go.
 

DjU

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Hooray for the Desiro City! Thameslink should hopefully see its’ new trains delivered on time and with minimal technical issues by choosing Siemens

Not entirely sure Transport Scotland would agree with you on that one!
 

Bedpan

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Reasonably good news, hopefully they will start to enter service in 2015 but the bloke on 3 Counties Radio this morening was saying 2017 which means that without any new stock,the overcrowding situation isn't really going to improve for the next 6 years. Its all very well running 3 12 car trains in the morning peak but I can just see some others being reduced from 8 to 4 cars to compensate.

I have never liked the 319s, they look a bit austere, not a patch on the 317s for instance that were built at roughly the same time. By comparison the 377s are wonderful, in fact they are probably my favourite class of EMU, provided that they actually work.


Are there any pictures/drawings of the new Siemens trains anywhere?
 

sprinterguy

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jopsuk

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Hmm, only at "preffered bidder" status, not "Ordered"- the clock still keeps ticking on the order drought.
 

tbtc

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Hmm, only at "preffered bidder" status, not "Ordered"- the clock still keeps ticking on the order drought.

Good point.

I'm not too fussed who builds these, as long as they get built quickly (and then people in "the provinces" can have the 319s...)
 

YorkshireBear

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good news that it seems to be making progress.

So what happens to bombardier derby works then? I presume they wont throw the towel in till after crossrail orders are placed?
 

swt_passenger

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Reasonably good news, hopefully they will start to enter service in 2015 ...

They have to AFAICS because the additional daily hire units from SN for the Dec 2011 12 car services, and the rest of the 23 x 377/5s have to start going back to SN then - according to SN's franchise spec.

As it is I reckon they are about a year behind the original schedule according to the dates announced today.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

good news that it seems to be making progress.

So what happens to bombardier derby works then? I presume they wont throw the towel in till after crossrail orders are placed?

There's always the Pacer replacement :D - but there's still loads of LU stuff after the S stock. Bakerloo, Piccadilly, W&C and Central all have replacement dates lined up.
 
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RichmondCommu

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Reasonably good news, hopefully they will start to enter service in 2015 but the bloke on 3 Counties Radio this morening was saying 2017 which means that without any new stock,the overcrowding situation isn't really going to improve for the next 6 years. Its all very well running 3 12 car trains in the morning peak but I can just see some others being reduced from 8 to 4 cars to compensate.

I have never liked the 319s, they look a bit austere, not a patch on the 317s for instance that were built at roughly the same time. By comparison the 377s are wonderful, in fact they are probably my favourite class of EMU, provided that they actually work.


Are there any pictures/drawings of the new Siemens trains anywhere?

The original 317's were built way back in 1981 with the latest 319's finished in 1990 so there is quite a gap.
 

WatcherZero

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Bombardier will now be odds on most likely for Crossrail contract with Dft wanting to balance orders between the two companies. First deliverys from 2015, so what 3 maybe 4 years of diesels under the wire in the North West.

Still I called correctly it in Siemens favour, it was a better design.
 

jopsuk

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There's always the Pacer replacement :D - but there's still loads of LU stuff after the S stock. Bakerloo, Piccadilly, W&C and Central all have replacement dates lined up.

Nothing on order though yet- just outstanding orders (on plan) of 172s, 379s and S-Stock (any 09 stock still to be delivered?)
 
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