An Altrincham tram extension

[northwichcat]

What do people think of the following suggestion:

Build a new tram line going out from the Timperley stop running parallel to the B5165 westbound and then the A56 southbound to Altrincham interchange, then continue the line to Bowdon, Dunham Town and Dunham Massey. Street running may be required for parts of it.

Then the tram stops would be: Timperley, South Trafford College, Garrick Theatre, Altrincham Interchange, Grammar Schools (by Loreto and North Cestrain schools), Bowdon, Dunham Town and Dunham Massey.

Maybe the Bury trams would terminate at Altrincham Interchange and the Piccadilly trams would continue to Dunham Massey.

Both lines through Navigation Road could then be used by heavy rail. The trams would not need to be controlled by Network Rail signalling. The Navigation Road-Timperley infrastructure could remain as a way of getting engineering vehicles on and off Metrolink lines plus for potential future tram-train usage.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The B5165 is Park Road in Timperley. The first problem would be to bridge over the Bridgewater Canal, as that is in-between the existing Metrolink line and your first station at South Trafford College.

Can you clarify in a little more detail the route in that first section.

The Garrick Theatre is on Barrington Road (B5164) and is a major road link into Atrincham town centre, which then becomes Stamford New Road passing Altrincham Interchange. This is a very busy road. The road contines as Ashley Road, where it passes the Grammar Schools that you mention.

There is another road called The Downs that branches off opposite to Lloyd Street that goes via Bowden to the Dunham area, but this is very much an area of conservation with certain codicils in law covering land useage.

Your final stations are at Bowden, Dunham Town and Dunham Massey. There would most certainly strong objections from residents in the Bowden area and the National Trust are large landowners in both Dunham Town and in Dunham Massey, where they have a large estate, deer park and mansion.

 

[northwichcat]

I really don't understand your reply. You're saying about a new crossing being needed over the Bridgewater canal but then saying about the road being too busy to take trams. If the trams run on the road then why the new bridge, if they don't then why would they immediately go on to the road after crossing the tram only bridge?

Regarding central Altrincham, the trams could rejoin the existing tram line where the track is quadrupled, call at platforms 1 and 2 at Altrincham Interchange as present. The old line to the old depot could be reinstated for tram use (the road bridge just south of the station is wide enough for quadruple track), to avoid the trams needing to go on to the road so close to the bus interchange.

I'm well aware of what's at Dunham Massey - that's what makes it a tourist attraction. If trams run on existing roads in this area then they are greener and quieter than the buses and lorries already on the roads.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Bridgewater Canal runs in-between the A56 and the Metrolink line from Stretford to where it goes underneath the A56 at Atlantic Street in Broadheath.

Again, I say, if you want a stop at South Trafford College, you will have to bridge the canal to reach that area from the existng line at Timperley. There is no other option and my wife and I have driven to that area today to check on matters and found this to be the case. Park Road (B5165) is only a narrow road, with properties fronting on to it and we had trouble getting past a removals van, taking items away from a house.

I have no problem whatsoever with on-street running as this is the case from the side of the former Midland Hotel until Victoria station and Piccadilly station are reached. I am sure that Trafford Council and other statutory bodies will know enough about Metrolink on-street running by now.

I seriously think that the Bowden area will be a problem with the residents, whatsoever route you choose. From there, there will be a crossing of the A56 in the area where you will need to gain access to the final Dunham part of your route which I take that will be Charcoal Road (B5160).

UP TO TODAY, I HAVE NEVER DISAGREED WITH ANY POINT ON ANY THREAD THAT YOU HAVE MADE AND I FEEL THAT YOU ALWAYS MAKE CAREFULLY JUDGED ARGUMENTS IN RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE MORE OUTRAGEOUS SUPPOSITIONS THAT OCCUR ON THREADS.

 

[Samtron2000]

Scheduled bus services were removed from park road many years ago due to the traffic queues that form at the lights onto the a56. In the evening rush hour the traffic queue will stretch halfway to timp village. It can take almost 30 mins to travel 1/2 mile on a bad evening!!!

 

[northwichcat]

Can you clarify in a little more detail the route in that first section.

The B5165 is Park Road in Timperley. The first problem would be to bridge over the Bridgewater Canal, as that is in-between the existing Metrolink line and your first station at South Trafford College.

Scheduled bus services were removed from park road many years ago due to the traffic queues that form at the lights onto the a56.

I was putting a suggestion up for discussion, which would mean the tram route is not replicating the train route.

I was envisaging the route running along roads and parallel to roads, like the trams currently operate in Manchester city centre. Building new tram lines on existing road or building new lanes/tramways for trams would vary between areas.

The first part of the route would involve running along/parallel to Park Road to junction of A56, then A56 to junction of B5164, B5164 to A538, the rejoining existing Metrolink line north of Altrincham interchange.

As I say it's a suggestion. It's not something that a feasibility study has been carried out on. It might be that a stop right by South Trafford College wouldn't be practical but there are other routes that can be taken between Timperley and Altrincham to still take a different route to the train.

 

[Invincibles]

If it was really felt necessary then I think that metrolink could run on Grosvenor road then on a dedicated track above the culvert to the old trackbed that comes from Stockport where it could head back to rejoin its current alignment.

That would remove any need to take national rail down to 1 track at Navigation Road station itself.

However I really do not know if it would be that beneficial given the other single tracks between Navigation Road and Stockport.

 

[Samtron2000]

Not sure the owners of the £500k houses on that stretch of park road would be willing to give up their gardens for trams!!

What justification would there be for running trams to Dunham Town. There is an hourly bus service (Warrington #5) from altrincham and that is rarely busy except for peaks.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was putting a suggestion up for discussion, which would mean the tram route is not replicating the train route. The first part of the route would involve running along/parallel to Park Road to junction of A56, then A56 to junction of B5164, B5164 to A538, the rejoining existing Metrolink line north of Altrincham interchange.

As I say it's a suggestion. It's not something that a feasibility study has been carried out on. It might be that a stop right by South Trafford College wouldn't be practical but there are other routes that can be taken between Timperley and Altrincham to still take a different route to the train.

I thank you for making the time to put forward a suggestion that has brought much thought-provoking debate. As I said, my wife and I actually drove out to look at the area this weekend and the canal had some longboats using it much to the annoyance of some fishermen. It is just that South Trafford College where a station was suggested is on the OTHER side of the A56 and the area surrounding it, that once was farmland, is now much built over with high-quality housing since 2000. A new road now runs past the side of the college through to Sinderland Road, to serve these new properties. This was the part of your route that I had reservations upon.

Samtron2000 has mentioned why the buses were removed from Park Road (which I would not have known, not living anywhere near here) and the value of the houses on Park Road. I also made mention that the road was very narrow for the traffic that it carries, being a link road from West Timperley to Timperley Village.

I do see the underlying reason behind your suggestion is to reinstate double track heavy rail running from Navigation Road station through to Altrincham Interchange. But that is a matter for another day..on another thread.