Amusing Otford bus

[ollyrogers]

An interesting incident this evening involving a fallen tree at Otford being hit by a Thameslink service:

It appears the damage to the stricken unit wasn’t as severe as expected and credit to SE for quickly arranging bus transportation while the line was closed. Unfortunately, the line was reopened a short time later leading to this amusing catch on the upcoming departures, where you can get a bus at 21:00 or a train at 21:01!


Image showing two consecutive departures from Otford to Ashford Int. at 21:00 and 21:01 on a bus and train, respectively

I can say in many years of commuting that’s the first time I’ve seen this eventuality!

 

[Travelmonkey]

An interesting incident this evening involving a fallen tree at Otford being hit by a Thameslink service:

It appears the damage to the stricken unit wasn’t as severe as expected and credit to SE for quickly arranging bus transportation while the line was closed. Unfortunately, the line was reopened a short time later leading to this amusing catch on the upcoming departures, where you can get a bus at 21:00 or a train at 21:01!

View attachment 188535
Image showing two consecutive departures from Otford to Ashford Int. at 21:00 and 21:01 on a bus and train, respectively

I can say in many years of commuting that’s the first time I’ve seen this eventuality!

Nice to have options I suppose. XC just dump you at new street and make ya a Network Rail problem. I doubt you'd be able to claim delay repay if you opted for the pointless RRB though,

 

[stadler]

I remember about three months ago GTR put on a rail replacement bus (as far as Gatwick Airport station) for the 00:02 from Brighton (the final Northbound train of the day) as it was initially cancelled due to staff shortages.

The train got reinstated (as presumably they found a driver) but the bus still ran anyway. It called at Brighton - Preston Park - Hassocks - Burgess Hill - Wivelsfield - Haywards Heath - Balcombe - Three Bridges - Gatwick Airport and unsurprisingly no other passengers boarded or alighted at any stop.

 

[Edsmith]

The bus probably just set down people already on board and may well not have gone all the way to Ashford anyway.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That departure board appears to show a train that was supposed to run at 21:01 but was delayed. So it's not clear to me when it did actually run - or whether, allowing for the delay, the bus or the train would be the quickest option.

 

[brad465]

That departure board appears to show a train that was supposed to run at 21:01 but was delayed. So it's not clear to me when it did actually run - or whether, allowing for the delay, the bus or the train would be the quickest option.

That service is running more or less as planned according to RTT, though had to sit at East Malling for 7 minutes for some reason:

Realtime Trains | 2N66 2025 London Victoria to Ashford International | 18/09/2025

Real-time train running information for 2N66 2025 departure from London Victoria to Ashford International on 18/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Fenchurch SP]

I remember about three months ago GTR put on a rail replacement bus (as far as Gatwick Airport station) for the 00:02 from Brighton (the final Northbound train of the day) as it was initially cancelled due to staff shortages.

The train got reinstated (as presumably they found a driver) but the bus still ran anyway. It called at Brighton - Preston Park - Hassocks - Burgess Hill - Wivelsfield - Haywards Heath - Balcombe - Three Bridges - Gatwick Airport and unsurprisingly no other passengers boarded or alighted at any stop.

Sometimes on the Brighton line when there is overnight engineering with RRBs it is quicker to let a bus go and wait for the first scheduled train (if it's not cancelled).

 

[stadler]

Yet another odd one early this morning just now. They put on a pointless 23:40 Three Bridges - Balcombe - Haywards Heath - Wivelsfield - Burgess Hill - Hassocks - Preston Park - Brighton 00:52 rail replacement bus. Another completely empty bus.

They did cancel one train (which is presumably why it ran) but there was another all stations stopping train just thirty minutes later. Some intermediate stations had another train just over five minutes later and another one fifteen minutes later. So every station still had another train running (some even had three alternative trains) within thirty minutes after as only one train was cancelled.

Unsurprisingly there were zero other passengers onboard the bus for the entire journey which proves that it was pointless. All of the passengers obviously just took the next trains running shortly after. Why are they wasting money on pointless rail replacement buses like this.

 

[stadler]

Myself and others have posted about pointless rail replacement buses in this thread. However these have always been cases if disruption or where a train was cancelled but taking the next train was quicker. So the rail replacement buses still served a purpose in replacing a cancelled train even though waiting for the next train was quicker.

However yesterday evening i came across a random pointless rail replacement bus that appeared to be running for no reason.

Lewes (22:50) - Cooksbridge (23:00) - Plumpton (23:11)

So just one random journey from Lewes to Plumpton calling at Cooksbridge in the middle. There was no other rail replacement in the area at all yesterday or during tonight.

No trains were cancelled. No trains were delayed. No disruption happened yesterday evening. Everything was running as it should. The normal scheduled trains called at these stations as normal.

Unsurprisingly there were zero other passengers on the rail replacement bus. The bus driver had no idea why this bus ran and he had been called in to work just for this one rail replacement bus and then he was going back home again.

What is the logic in running this? Why on earth are GTR wasting money on random rail replacement buses for zero purpose?

 

[stadler]

And it has happened yet again. Southern again running pointless rail replacement buses for no reason. This is getting a bit ridiculous now.

These two rail replacement buses randomly ran yesterday evening:

• Lewes (23:00) - Cooksbridge (23:10) - Haywards Heath (23:38)

• Lewes (23:00) - Plumpton (23:20)

No trains were cancelled. No trains were delayed. All trains were running as they should. The last trains of the day called at Cooksbridge and Plumpton as usual. There was zero reason to run these. As expected both of the buses left Lewes completely empty and had zero passengers. There was no other rail replacement so these two buses came all the way from the depot just to do these pointless journeys.

Also to make it even more laughable they ran two separate buses. Even if rail replacement buses were required (which they were not) they could have easily just had one Lewes - Cooksbridge - Plumpton - Haywards Heath bus rather than two separate services. No idea who is planning this.

No wonder our tickets are so expensive when Southern keep on randomly ordering rail replacement buses for zero purpose. Clearly someone at Southern has no clue what they are doing. Why would you keep on running random rail replacement buses for zero purpose when nothing is cancelled or delayed. It is utterly bonkers.

 

[RJ]

Some interesting rail replacement services running tonight. 0103 Blackfriars to Brighton via Victoria and 0103 Purley to Bedford. Presumably these were laid on because of the clock change and started at GMT rather than BST. Good to see this taken into account!

An interesting incident this evening involving a fallen tree at Otford being hit by a Thameslink service:

It appears the damage to the stricken unit wasn’t as severe as expected and credit to SE for quickly arranging bus transportation while the line was closed. Unfortunately, the line was reopened a short time later leading to this amusing catch on the upcoming departures, where you can get a bus at 21:00 or a train at 21:01!

View attachment 188535
Image showing two consecutive departures from Otford to Ashford Int. at 21:00 and 21:01 on a bus and train, respectively

I can say in many years of commuting that’s the first time I’ve seen this eventuality!

Happens from time to time and you’ll find some people still prefer to take the replacement bus, particularly in these circumstances where it’s uncertain when or if the delayed train will turn up.

I remember about three months ago GTR put on a rail replacement bus (as far as Gatwick Airport station) for the 00:02 from Brighton (the final Northbound train of the day) as it was initially cancelled due to staff shortages.

The train got reinstated (as presumably they found a driver) but the bus still ran anyway. It called at Brighton - Preston Park - Hassocks - Burgess Hill - Wivelsfield - Haywards Heath - Balcombe - Three Bridges - Gatwick Airport and unsurprisingly no other passengers boarded or alighted at any stop.

It’s sensible to cover the last train of the day being cancelled and advertise it in advance. Great if it’s reinstated but cancelling the bus brings its own problems.

If the train is reinstated, the bus company still has to pay the driver for reserving their time at short notice. There’s also a risk of stranding - the bus is slower than the train it replaces so the service hours are effectively extended. If the bus is pulled and people made plans to catch it then what are they meant to do?

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Some interesting rail replacement services running tonight. 0103 Blackfriars to Brighton via Victoria and 0103 Purley to Bedford. Presumably these were laid on because of the clock change and started at GMT rather than BST. Good to see this taken into account!



Happens from time to time and you’ll find some people still prefer to take the replacement bus, particularly in these circumstances where it’s uncertain when or if the delayed train will turn up.



It’s sensible to cover the last train of the day being cancelled and advertise it in advance. Great if it’s reinstated but cancelling the bus brings its own problems.

If the train is reinstated, the bus company still has to pay the driver for reserving their time at short notice. There’s also a risk of stranding - the bus is slower than the train it replaces so the service hours are effectively extended. If the bus is pulled and people made plans to catch it then what are they meant to do?

They get taxis paid for by the TOC.

 

[RJ]

They get taxis paid for by the TOC.

Great in theory. Availability in the middle of the night in some sleepy places isn’t always great.

 

[WestCountry]

Great in theory. Availability in the middle of the night in some sleepy places isn’t always great.

I had quite an experience with this at Acton Bridge a while ago. Last train of the day (~10pm) cancelled - NRE kept advising that a replacement bus was (pick one at random) {imminent, expected in 10 minutes, expected in half an hour} until quarter past midnight. Then when they agreed to book a taxi it took them an hour to find one.

Perhaps I'd have booked one myself earlier if not for a degree of stubborn curiosity...

 

[Stephen42]

And it has happened yet again. Southern again running pointless rail replacement buses for no reason. This is getting a bit ridiculous now.

These two rail replacement buses randomly ran yesterday evening:

• Lewes (23:00) - Cooksbridge (23:10) - Haywards Heath (23:38)

• Lewes (23:00) - Plumpton (23:20)

No trains were cancelled. No trains were delayed. All trains were running as they should. The last trains of the day called at Cooksbridge and Plumpton as usual. There was zero reason to run these. As expected both of the buses left Lewes completely empty and had zero passengers. There was no other rail replacement so these two buses came all the way from the depot just to do these pointless journeys.

Also to make it even more laughable they ran two separate buses. Even if rail replacement buses were required (which they were not) they could have easily just had one Lewes - Cooksbridge - Plumpton - Haywards Heath bus rather than two separate services. No idea who is planning this.

No wonder our tickets are so expensive when Southern keep on randomly ordering rail replacement buses for zero purpose. Clearly someone at Southern has no clue what they are doing. Why would you keep on running random rail replacement buses for zero purpose when nothing is cancelled or delayed. It is utterly bonkers.

Those were planned replacement buses not in response to service disruption. Trains were altered to start from Bexhill instead of Ore. Any person travelling on the bus at the time of the last London train would miss the last Bexhill to London train. The buses were timed to leave Lewes after the Brighton bound train that connected with the first bus.

Plumpton usually gets a separate bus to Cooksbridge when the line is closed, likely due to local roads. If due to roads then even if low expected passenger numbers would need separate buses.

Whether buses should be organised when the last train is made significantly earlier for engineering works is a separate question. In this case it doesn't seem worthwhile given the low likelihood of anyone trying to make those journeys.

 

[RJ]

I drive the route every now and again. There were people waiting for Plumpton on Friday night and I’ll be down at Lewes again tonight.

Sometimes buses do both Plumpton and Cooksbridge. On occasion I get a Lewes to Haywards Heath trip which covers both stations and do it just fine in a 12 metre Citaro. That said, The safe route via Honeypot Lane is a bit circuitous and requires a double run and three point turn. During the daytime it’s impractical in anything bigger than a minibus and adds a fair bit of time to serve both stations, but for first and last coverage it’s fine.

The Haywards Heath to Lewes route can get quite busy so two buses isn’t the worst idea.