Alternatives to the Golborne Spur?

[tomuk]

So new construction all the way to at least Preston, and there you've got the Wigan problem all over again; join the WCML south of the station and you're subject to speed restrictions for through trains, join north thereof and fast ones can't call unless they run conventional WCML all the way from Crewe.

Isn't it four tracks from Euxton into Preston widening to six then nine tracks through the station I'm sure room can be made to ensure a fast arrival and departure.

 

[Bald Rick]

Access to Liverpool, Manchester and even Leeds from the north.

it will be just as quick with the direct trains via Preston.

Preston has very significant traffic, and needs the stop.

 

[tomuk]

it will be just as quick with the direct trains via Preston.

So a combination of a HS2 train from Glasgow stopping at say Carlisle, Preston WBQ LL then an NPR going direct to the airport would be no quicker than a Glasgow TPE stopping at Motherwell, Lockerbie, Carlisle, Penrith, Oxenholme, Lancaster, Preston, Bolton, MCO, Man Picc then the airport?

Preston has very significant traffic, and needs the stop.

I'm sure it does but I didn't suggest to remove stops from Preston anyway, just consoidate the stops at WBQ HL and Wigan into at least 3tph at WBQ LL.

 

[furnessvale]

Agreed, but avoiding Wigan means trains off HS2 cannot stop there.

.....which was the thinking behind Warrington's objections to the Golborne spur.

Of course trains from Wigan and/or Warrington can simply join HS2 at the next link.....Crewe?

 

[Bald Rick]

So a combination of a HS2 train from Glasgow stopping at say Carlisle, Preston WBQ LL then an NPR going direct to the airport would be no quicker than a Glasgow TPE stopping at Motherwell, Lockerbie, Carlisle, Penrith, Oxenholme, Lancaster, Preston, Bolton, MCO, Man Picc then the airport?

a combination of an HS2 train stopping at, say, Glasgow and Preston, connecting there for a train to Manchester would almost certainly be quicker, yes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

a combination of an HS2 train stopping at, say, Glasgow and Preston, connecting there for a train to Manchester would almost certainly be quicker, yes.

Though of course many people prefer a direct train, and unless the connection is very well-timed a classic line direct train could even be quicker.

The TPE Scotland service doesn't need to exist*, really, you can always take Avanti and change at Preston. But it's well used.

You can't justify a direct train from everywhere to everywhere, but Manchester to/from Scotland is a major flow and definitely does justify a direct train.

* No looking at the cancellations on RTT and then smirking at the back there.

 

[Bald Rick]

Though of course many people prefer a direct train, and unless the connection is very well-timed a classic line direct train could even be quicker.

The TPE Scotland service doesn't need to exist*, really, you can always take Avanti and change at Preston. But it's well used.

You can't justify a direct train from everywhere to everywhere, but Manchester to/from Scotland is a major flow and definitely does justify a direct train.

* No looking at the cancellations on RTT and then smirking at the back there.

I completely agree. My point was that for passengers from Scotland who wanted to get to Manchester or Liverpool by changing at a putative Warrington HS station would more than likely find it just as quick to change at Preston.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

it will be just as quick with the direct trains via Preston.

Preston has very significant traffic, and needs the stop.

I am glad you said it. I am biased ok I admit it. My 2nd home is Preston and both my parents, parents in law and kids were born there but any HS2 routing has to call at Preston. Anything else is just stupid.

 

[tomuk]

a combination of an HS2 train stopping at, say, Glasgow and Preston, connecting there for a train to Manchester would almost certainly be quicker, yes.

The TPE train has to go via Bolton and through Castlefield at a max of 100mph. The HS2 train can travel at at least 140mph in not more from Preston to Warrington BQ LL then the NPR 125 mph to the Airport and Picc.

I am glad you said it. I am biased ok I admit it. My 2nd home is Preston and both my parents, parents in law and kids were born there but any HS2 routing has to call at Preston. Anything else is just stupid.

I never suggested trains wouldn't stop at Preston. What's wrong with 4tph HS2 stopping at both WBQ LL and Preston.

 

[Bald Rick]

The TPE train has to go via Bolton and through Castlefield at a max of 100mph. The HS2 train can travel at at least 140mph in not more from Preston to Warrington BQ LL then the NPR 125 mph to the Airport and Picc.

it also has to travel a lot further. And lose 6-7 minutes by stopping at Warrington, and another 5 at the airport. The modelling showed that Manchester to Preston via HS2 and Golbone was slower than existing line via Bolton. It will clearly be slower still with a Warrington stop.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I never suggested trains wouldn't stop at Preston. What's wrong with 4tph HS2 stopping at both WBQ LL and Preston.

it was in reference to post 10.

 

[MarkyT]

it also has to travel a lot further. And lose 6-7 minutes by stopping at Warrington, and another 5 at the airport. The modelling showed that Manchester to Preston via HS2 and Golbone was slower than existing line via Bolton. It will clearly be slower still with a Warrington stop.

And any improvements north of Preston for HS2 traffic might also be used by other high-performance electric units going to Manchester via Bolton.

 

[Some guy]

I am glad you said it. I am biased ok I admit it. My 2nd home is Preston and both my parents, parents in law and kids were born there but any HS2 routing has to call at Preston. Anything else is just stupid.

They have to stop there as Preston will still be a major depot for crew changes and has so many connections to so many places

 

[GRALISTAIR]

They have to stop there as Preston will still be a major depot for crew changes and has so many connections to so many places

Yes. I think even Caledonian Sleeper change crews at Preston. It is also almost exactly half way between London and the Glasgow/Edinburgh axis.

 

[Some guy]

Yes. I think even Caledonian Sleeper change crews at Preston. It is also almost exactly half way between London and the Glasgow/Edinburgh axis.

It is basically half way as leyland is basically an outskirt to Preston and that’s exactly 200 miles between London and Glasgow

 

[Pinus contorta]

It is basically half way as leyland is basically an outskirt to Preston and that’s exactly 200 miles between London and Glasgow

Didn't there used to be a sign, when you went past what was the Leyland Trucks sidings, saying the distance to London / Glasgow?or am I getting mixed up with somewhere else?

 

[Some guy]

Didn't there used to be a sign, when you went past what was the Leyland Trucks sidings, saying the distance to London / Glasgow?or am I getting mixed up with somewhere else?

I don’t think there has been recently