Alternatives during a cancellation, what are the time limit rules?

[Tetragon213]

I have just arrived into Derby station, and as is typical for the broken railways, the final service of the night is, as usual, CANCELLED! Less than 3 days after getting an earful from another family member over her service cancellation, now I have also been the victim of such.

Making matters worse, EMR has decided to arrange a replacement bus service leaving at 2:20 am, a full 2 hours after the initial service was intended to even run. Seeing as EMR has so graciously arranged for a replacement bus, I have been additionally informed by staff that a taxi cannot be arranged.

My question is, is there not a rule regarding arranging of alternative travel within a reasonable time frame? Or is departure of a slower bus service a full 2 hours after intended departure at highly unsociable hours considered acceptable?

While I seethe in the frigid waiting room, I will absolutely be claiming both delay repay and firing off complaint.

Update 0045: the station master appears to be one of the few good men at EMR with common sense, and has very kindly arranged a taxi for the few of us trying to get to Sheffield

 

[WesternLancer]

I have just arrived into Derby station, and as is typical for the broken railways, the final service of the night is, as usual, CANCELLED! Less than 3 days after getting an earful from another family member over her service cancellation, now I have also been the victim of such.

Making matters worse, EMR has decided to arrange a replacement bus service leaving at 2:20 am, a full 2 hours after the initial service was intended to even run. Seeing as EMR has so graciously arranged for a replacement bus, I have been additionally informed by staff that a taxi cannot be arranged.

My question is, is there not a rule regarding arranging of alternative travel within a reasonable time frame? Or is departure of a slower bus service a full 2 hours after intended departure at highly unsociable hours considered acceptable?

While I seethe in the frigid waiting room, I will absolutely be claiming both delay repay and firing off complaint.

How many passengers need the service concerned? Is it enough to warrant a bus or would have using taxis been more efficient?

As a matter of interest what was your journey?

 

[Starmill]

How many passengers need the service concerned? Is it enough to warrant a bus would have using taxis been more efficient?

As a matter of interest what was your journey?

The bus at 0210 needs to run regardless. Otherwise the passengers from London won't be able to get to Chesterfield or Sheffield.

 

[Tetragon213]

How many passengers need the service concerned? Is it enough to warrant a bus or would have using taxis been more efficient?

As a matter of interest what was your journey?

2 people, Derby to Sheffield. The station master is apparently the only one at EMR with any common sense, and has very kindly made some arrangements for a taxi for the few of us trying to get to Sheffield (certainly not enough to come anywhere close to filling up a minibus).

 

[Starmill]

I have just arrived into Derby station, and as is typical for the broken railways, the final service of the night is, as usual, CANCELLED! Less than 3 days after getting an earful from another family member over her service cancellation, now I have also been the victim of such.

Making matters worse, EMR has decided to arrange a replacement bus service leaving at 2:20 am, a full 2 hours after the initial service was intended to even run. Seeing as EMR has so graciously arranged for a replacement bus, I have been additionally informed by staff that a taxi cannot be arranged.

My question is, is there not a rule regarding arranging of alternative travel within a reasonable time frame? Or is departure of a slower bus service a full 2 hours after intended departure at highly unsociable hours considered acceptable?

While I seethe in the frigid waiting room, I will absolutely be claiming both delay repay and firing off complaint.

Update 0045: the station master appears to be one of the few good men at EMR with common sense, and has very kindly arranged a taxi for the few of us trying to get to Sheffield

I think if it were me I'd have paid for a taxi and sent them the bill, as they're imposing a delay of just under three hours. That's completely unreasonable at that time of the morning. More to the point they're obligated to arrange an alternative that minimises the delay. They're also obliged to arrange some refreshments, in that case which obviously cannot be provided easily. I would strongly suggest buying some and sending them the bill.

This is the kind of thing where you'll never get anything sensible out of the situation if you wish to rely on your rights at the time. Obviously it's wise to ask politely, but don't waste your effort on anything more.

Look at it another way - if you spent £100 on a taxi for yourself here and then sent them a claim for breach of the PRO, eventually and after much hassle, you'd get that back, and you'd get to be warm and home. As it is, you'll get nothing more than your ticket price, a few quid for a drink from a vending machine, and whatever "goodwill gesture" they deign to provide. The latter may be nothing at all, or it may be something without cash value.

 

[WesternLancer]

2 people, Derby to Sheffield. The station master is apparently the only one at EMR with any common sense, and has very kindly made some arrangements for a taxi for the few of us trying to get to Sheffield (certainly not enough to come anywhere close to filling up a minibus).

Hope you are soon on your way.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2026 ==

I think if it were me I'd have paid for a taxi and sent them the bill, as they're imposing a delay of just under three hours. That's completely unreasonable at that time of the morning. More to the point they're obligated to arrange an alternative that minimises the delay. They're also obliged to arrange some refreshments, in that case which obviously cannot be provided easily. I would strongly suggest buying some and sending them the bill.

This is the kind of thing where you'll never get anything sensible out of the situation if you wish to rely on your rights at the time. Obviously it's wise to ask politely, but don't waste your effort on anything more.

Look at it another way - if you spent £100 on a taxi for yourself here and then sent them a claim for breach of the PRO, eventually and after much hassle, you'd get that back, and you'd get to be warm and home. As it is, you'll get nothing more than your ticket price, a few quid for a drink from a vending machine, and whatever "goodwill gesture" they deign to provide. The latter may be nothing at all, or it may be something without cash value.

Not sure where you’d get much in the way of refreshments at this hour at or near Derby station.

 

[Starmill]

Not sure where you’d get much in the way of refreshments at this hour at or near Derby station.

What's wrong with the place I mentioned in the post?

 

[WesternLancer]

What's wrong with the place I mentioned in the post?

Sorry. I don’t follow you? Which place?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

To go back to the original question - how easy is it for the railway to source road transport around midnight?

I'm with the consensus that from a passenger point of view, two hours is too long to wait, but what would be the point of setting a time limit that couldn't be met?

 

[fandroid]

What would forum members think to be a reasonable time limit to set before automatically ordering your own taxi? For the sake of argument, considering any cancelled or missed connection after midnight. The time limit counting from the departure time of the original (cancelled or missed) connection.

It's also easy to think that a passenger can find a taxi at that hour. Most sensible drivers have gone home by then!

I was faced on a recent delayed journey with only getting as far as Woking (at 01.30) on the way south to Basingstoke. I had no confidence that that I could even find a taxi at that time and the risk of having to wander the mean streets of Woking in the cold and dark was not one I was prepared to accept.

 

[johntea]

From a logistics point of view you can sort of see what EMR did here, cancelled the St Pancras - Sheffield service but ran the last St Pancras to Derby service so they expected anyone wanting Sheffield to just board that then the replacement coach would be waiting at Derby just after the train arrived there for anyone wanting Sheffield...but yes for the poor passengers already at Derby a 2 hour wait then a 1 hour trip for a journey that would only have taken half an hour is pretty unreasonable!

 

[Haywain]

My question is, is there not a rule regarding arranging of alternative travel within a reasonable time frame?

PRO requires you to be offered alternative travel if you will be delayed by more than 60 minutes.

how easy is it for the railway to source road transport around midnight?

That depends on the nature of the road transport required and the numbers you have to be moving. In a large town one might expect that taxis would be fairly readily available but a bus or coach might be more challenging.

 

[sheff1]

Not sure where you’d get much in the way of refreshments at this hour at or near Derby station.

Mr Booze Express is open 24 hours apparently.

 

[WesternLancer]

Mr Booze Express is open 24 hours apparently.

Aha. Thats worth knowing!

Probably no hot food options…

 

[sheff1]

It's also easy to think that a passenger can find a taxi at that hour. Most sensible drivers have gone home by then!

I would expect plenty of taxis in Derby at that hour. How many would do a Sheffield run I have no idea, a lot of drivers in cities who know they can get multiple localish journeys in the early hours will not do a long run and have to come back empty.

Aha. Thats worth knowing!

For clarity, it is the one a couple of minutes walk away on Midland Rd , not the one directly opposite the station.

 

[Tetragon213]

I think if it were me I'd have paid for a taxi and sent them the bill, as they're imposing a delay of just under three hours. That's completely unreasonable at that time of the morning. More to the point they're obligated to arrange an alternative that minimises the delay. They're also obliged to arrange some refreshments, in that case which obviously cannot be provided easily. I would strongly suggest buying some and sending them the bill.

I was very much considering sending them the bill if all else failed! The only "food" on site was a handful of vending machines, and whatever I suspect they could scavenge from the trolleys of the units being shuffled around.

Hope you are soon on your way.

Final arrival time into Sheffield was approx 1:35am. Certainly much better than the bus that was initially offered!

I would expect plenty of taxis in Derby at that hour. How many would do a Sheffield run I have no idea, a lot of drivers in cities who know they can get multiple localish journeys in the early hours will not do a long run and have to come back empty.

The station master had a bit of a difficult one arranging a taxi, as it is currently Ramadan, so more drivers than usual were off, understandably, to spend time with family and get some food of their own.

From a logistics point of view you can sort of see what EMR did here, cancelled the St Pancras - Sheffield service but ran the last St Pancras to Derby service so they expected anyone wanting Sheffield to just board that then the replacement coach would be waiting at Derby just after the train arrived there for anyone wanting Sheffield...but yes for the poor passengers already at Derby a 2 hour wait then a 1 hour trip for a journey that would only have taken half an hour is pretty unreasonable!

I can see the logic, but leaving the XC-connecting passengers stranded at a station for 2 hours was, shall we say, perhaps not the best option from a customer satisfaction, PR, or PRO point of view!

 

[Starmill]

I was very much considering sending them the bill if all else failed! The only "food" on site was a handful of vending machines, and whatever I suspect they could scavenge from the trolleys of the units being shuffled around.

A bottle of water or similar cold drink and maybe a bag of crisps is probably about as far as I'd like to ask for in the case of a delay of about two and a half to three hours anyway. All operators should be keeping bottled water on hand somewhere in the secure areas of stations for emergencies and this sort of situation, as a minimum. Usually there actually is some as well, but there may be nobody on site who knows where it is. Water is often handed out free on trains during very hot weather. LNER are usually very good at handing out free mini bottles of water during long delays, both onboard and in stations.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2026 ==

Final arrival time into Sheffield was approx 1:35am. Certainly much better than the bus that was initially offered!

That's a relief.

If course if EMR had arranged the minibus or taxi for just after midnight when all of the passengers had arrived, then it would potentially not even have qualified you for 30 minutes delay repay. This would have been far preferable and should have just been done in the first instance. At least you were able to get on the move thanks to one particularly effective member of staff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2026 ==

Sorry. I don’t follow you? Which place?

I suggested buying a drink from a vending machine in the station.

Google Maps also shows you which shops are open in real time. It's not always perfectly accurate but it does reveal the suggestion made by @sheff1 above.

Corner shops sometimes shut at midnight anyway so you can often nip into one just before closing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2026 ==

What would forum members think to be a reasonable time limit to set before automatically ordering your own taxi?

The alternative should be in place for a delay longer than an hour, as noted by @Haywain. In this case as the delay would have been approximately two and a half hours, so I'd say that falls well into the territory of arranging your own taxi once you've asked politely and been informed there's nothing available. Props to the OP for persisting...

When an alternative train is available the calculation often has to take that into account as it often won't add as much journey time. This case has no alternative trains unfortunately.

 

[philthetube]

Hope you are soon on your way.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2026 ==


Not sure where you’d get much in the way of refreshments at this hour at or near Derby station.

Just eat would find you something, from a 24 hour McDonalds or similar.

 

[Belperpete]

PRO requires you to be offered alternative travel if you will be delayed by more than 60 minutes.

In this case, the OP was offered alternative transport, so EMR could argue that they were meeting the PRO. The PRO doesn't seem to set any requirements on how quickly the alternative transport should be provided, just that it should be offered.

That depends on the nature of the road transport required and the numbers you have to be moving. In a large town one might expect that taxis would be fairly readily available but a bus or coach might be more challenging.

In Derby at that time of a Friday night, taxis would be picking up from the city centre, not from the train station. No driver in his right mind would be hanging around a deserted train station. Anybody arriving by train at that time needing onward taxi would have pre-booked it.

Not sure if it still applies, but when I lived in Derby, EMR had a contract with a taxi firm to provide replacement taxis - the station staff weren't allowed to just get the next taxi off the rank. Unfortunately that firm was based out Nottingham way, so it often took a long time for taxis to arrive, particularly during rush hours. I once waited for the best part of two hours one night before the taxi finally turned up, with the firm repeatedly claiming "it is on its way".