Alstom win order for ten new class 345s

[OneTrackMinded]

Let’s not forget the original 345 software and the current 345 software are now worlds apart.

Of course but at it's core it's not new software at it's core unlike the other Aventras which had custom made brand new software specifically for the platform

 

[ChristopherJ]

I'm sure I've read the later Aventras use a different type of traction motor to the initial models, a different type of cooling system using forced air rather than fans IIRC.

So will these 'phase two' 345s use the original or newer traction motor design?

It wouldn't surprise me if these 10 units are sub-classed separately as 345/1.

 

[Goldfish62]

Apart from some minor cosmetic changes in line with accessibility legislation the 7 additional 1996TS trains delivered for the Jubilee in 2005 were identical to the original batch, including having the same by then very outdated software and traction equipment.

Same with the 4 additional Pendolinos delivered around 2011.

In the both cases the reason was quite simple - no point in having a small batch of technically different trains unless there's a distinct advantage in doing so.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I'd have thought most issues with software changes arrises when you've coupled two different software based units but then the 345s do not couple.

It's clear there will be some minor changes due to different suppliers etc. I'd not be surprised some minor traction updates do happen however but it would be tested and kept to realms of existing order.

 

[Energy]

I'm sure I've read the later Aventras use a different type of traction motor to the initial models, a different type of cooling system using forced air rather than fans IIRC.

So will these 'phase two' 345s use the original or newer traction motor design?

It wouldn't surprise me if these 10 units are sub-classed separately as 345/1.

The original Aventra design had fans on the motors (as do most EMUs). The change to seperate units and forced air was after they lost Thameslink so I'd imagine the 345s are forced air.

Having cooling fans on the motor axle means the cooling is linked to motor speed, by moving to seperate units they can still have good cooling at lower speeds so they can use regenerative breaking at lower speed than other units.

 

[boiledbeans2]

There is a massive difference between calling at Faygate with eight coaches locked out and calling at Maryland with four coaches locked out. The performance risk would be an issue at an inner suburban station in a way it isn't at a rural station towards the end of the journey.

Currently, the two rear cars are locked out at Maryland. If the trains are extended to 11-cars, perhaps they could lock out the front 2 and rear 2 cars instead of 4 consecutive cars. Therefore, the maximum distance a passenger would have to walk in the train remains 2-car.

 

[James H]

With purdah now over, TfL has today published a paper about this:

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/b3334/Use of Chairs Action Elizabeth Line Upgrade Plan Opportunities To Support HS2 And Provide Capacity.pdf?T=9

A combined fleet of 80 trains (70 current plus 10 additional) will give us the flexibility to deploy a service in the best way to respond to the pressures and opportunities on the network, including because of HS2 services terminating at Old Oak Common. This addition also supports the forecast residential and commercial growth along the line, including the planned 25,000 new homes and 65,000 new jobs around Old Oak Common station.

Two indicative service enhancement packages have been developed for a combined fleet of 80 trains that include the following enhancements:

Further planning and development this year is required to determine the precise implementation plan for the proposed enhancement options and agree through our established governance on the specific interventions. Implementing both packages would require a fleet larger than 80 trains and has not been modelled or appraised at this time.

 

[Taunton]

There is no direct service. Maidenhead - Canary Wharf and Brentwood - C. London are probably some of the longest journeys that would have a reliable passenger flow. If you really need to go to change at Paddington.

The significant facilities issue is not some handful travelling Maidenhead to Canary Wharf which (includes me, by the way), but the large number doing Paddington to Ealing Broadway and beyond when, yet again, there is a big GWML failure, and multiple trains are stuck in the wilds around Old Oak.

 

[Horizon22]

The significant facilities issue is not some handful travelling Maidenhead to Canary Wharf which (includes me, by the way), but the large number doing Paddington to Ealing Broadway and beyond when, yet again, there is a big GWML failure, and multiple trains are stuck in the wilds around Old Oak.

You're not going to design a fleet for an incredibly rare stranding event.

 

[Invincible]

With purdah now over, TfL has today published a paper about this:

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/b3334/Use of Chairs Action Elizabeth Line Upgrade Plan Opportunities To Support HS2 And Provide Capacity.pdf?T=9

One of Louise Haigh's tasks as the new transport secretary will be to ensure HS2 opens to a target date of 2030, and the Elizabeth line upgrade and connection will be ready.

The funding for HS2 into Euston still needs sorting, so the Elizabeth line connection will be important for several years after HS2 opens.

 

[Snow1964]

DfT has published the TfL settlement letter of 14th June

£220.5m of which £77.2m is in 2024-25 financial year in 2 tranches, with rest later.

Also says trains to be delivered in financial years 2026-27 and 2027-28, so some of them are 3.5 years away.

Part 8 of letter says if ever TfL do sale and leaseback of the trains, need to repay grant to Government

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/668fd000ab418ab0555923d0/transport-for-london-elizabeth-line-trains-funding-settlement.pdf

 

[Snow1964]

As the Alstom potential closure of Derby thread is now locked, I find it interesting that Alstom have today mentioned that Adessia development for Cologne order will be at Henningsdorf. Sort of undermines those that said Derby will be doing Adessia development.

The prices also make the class 345 order look very expensive, Cologne order is 90 trains, mix of 9car 150m versions and longer 11car versions, plus 34 years of maintenance for €4000m (about pounds 37m each). They will be first trains on Germanys S-bahn with toilets. Will be built at Bautzen.

Alstom wins €4 billion contract for the supply and maintenance of 90 commuter trains for S-Bahn Cologne in Germany

Contract includes 90 Adessia Stream trains and maintenance over a period of 34 years

www.alstom.com

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I wonder if there's ever been research into this new fangled idea of economies of scale- always wondered if an impact was to be had.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

new fangled idea of economies of scale

Economies of scale are not a new idea in the slightest.