ALR problem

[furgus2]

I've just had a situation with a ScotRail conductor who has told me that my 14 day 1st class ALR (of which I'm on day 8) is not valid as I don't have a separate card with boxes to tick.
In all the years I've been buying ALRs, I've never heard of this. He examined the rover plus all the reservations I have in the folder with it. I did not argue with him, merely told him I hadn't been issued with a tick box card. He said he had been told by his bosses that such a card was essential to make the ALR valid.
Anyway, he has given the rover back to me and says I must go to the ticket office at Edinburgh to get it sorted.
Surely he is wrong about this?

 

[Seacook]

I've just had a situation with a ScotRail conductor who has told me that my 14 day 1st class ALR (of which I'm on day 8) is not valid as I don't have a separate card with boxes to tick.
In all the years I've been buying ALRs, I've never heard of this. He examined the rover plus all the reservations I have in the folder with it. I did not argue with him, merely told him I hadn't been issued with a tick box card. He said he had been told by his bosses that such a card was essential to make the ALR valid.
Anyway, he has given the rover back to me and says I must go to the ticket office at Edinburgh to get it sorted.
Surely he is wrong about this?

This cannot be right. What would be the purpose of tick boxes for a ticket with an expiry date printed on it? I imagine he must be confusing an ALR (valid for 7 or 14 consecutive days) with something like a Freedom of Scotland Travelpass (valid for 4 in 8 days or 8 in 15).

I've never needed a tickbox card with an ALR and I trust it will not be required for my next one in three weeks' time.

 

[furgus2]

I think you must be right. As ALR tickets now have 'Freedom of Britain' printed on them, he probably misread or confused it with 'Freedom of Scotkand'

 

[RJ]

This cannot be right. What would be the purpose of tick boxes for a ticket with an expiry date printed on it? I imagine he must be confusing an ALR (valid for 7 or 14 consecutive days) with something like a Freedom of Scotland Travelpass (valid for 4 in 8 days or 8 in 15).

I've never needed a tickbox card with an ALR and I trust it will not be required for my next one in three weeks' time.

Flexi Rovers and Carnets still have expiry dates printed on them! The only clue that boxes are required in some cases is the "Issued as 2 Coupons" endorsement that appears at the top of the ticket. Sometimes the ticket type "Flexi Rover" and the text "x days in x" is not something inspectors will always pick up on. I'm currently in possession of an East Midlands 3 in 7. I've been on around a dozen trains, had the ticket checked every time but haven't once been asked to show the boxes.

I have heard reports of boxes being printed out with ALRs, but I understand it's a technical error rather than anything else. You're correct in asserting that boxes are not required.

I think you must be right. As ALR tickets now have 'Freedom of Britain' printed on them, he probably misread or confused it with 'Freedom of Scotkand'

Sometimes they do - it depends on which ticket issuing system they're printed from! I think it would be a good idea to feed this back to ScotRail so they can speak to the individual concerned. Not to get them into trouble, but to ensure they don't make the same mistake with other passengers.

 

[furgus2]

Yes, RJ, I intend to let Scotrail know that I had a problem just to try and ensure that the problem will not occur again.
Just to say that over the years I've bought several ALRs and I find that very often the person checking the ticket on board are very friendly and interested in it and will ask me about my travels.
The very few problems over the years, apart from today have been:
1 Where's your photo card
2 One TM who was unhappy that the Issued to' field was blank and insisted on writing my name down
3 Some who see the station name in the 'issued at' field and then say this train isn't going there

 

[RJ]

I've done two - both in First Class last year. My experiences varied slightly - several TMs on a certain Intercity TOC asked why on earth I had a ticket given they knew my face as I was working for them, whilst a guard on a local service in Cardiff was very surprised to see one on his train to Penarth. Never actually had the validity questioned in any way - not even on the early morning East Coast/EMT/Virgin services out of London

Both times I had them issued from an Avantix Mobile machine - the "Issued at" field was blank and they were still endorsed as an ALR rather than a Freedom of Britain ticket.

Feeding back to the TOC is a good idea - nothing makes me feel worse than finding out that I gave a customer incorrect advice and I'd sooner have someone point out what's correct, giving me the chance to apologise next time I see them than be blissfully unaware and do the same thing again.

The novelty of doing it in 1st has worn off now and I felt like I was wasting my time using that ticket on staggers to Whitby and Saltburn. I think I'll be doing an ALR between my exams finishing in mid June and my 3 days away in Glastonbury at the end of June! Looking quite forward to it! The Heart of Wales is top of the list, I'd also like to do the lines in the Valleys and deep South/West Wales.

 

[Polarbear]

I've had this problem in the past in Scotland. My last ALR was some years back so it's not a new thing.

Actually, it happened twice in one day! I was travelling from Inverness to London but via Aberdeen. On leaving Inverness, I was told quite firmly that I needed to date my ALR. I tried to explain that it was an ALR & not a Freedom of Scotland, but the guard snatched the ticket from my hand & dated the back of the ticket for me. I tried to explain why he didn't need to do this & why would I need to date a ticket with a fixed 7 day validity, (I was irritated but not shouting or swearing) but he chose to completely blank me & shut himself in the back cab!

On the next train from Aberdeen to Edinburgh, the guard duly checked for a date on the reverse of the ticket.

I think at the time ALR's were issued on purple stock that automatically printed boxes on the back.

I've never had any other issues with an ALR.

 

[bb21]

I think at the time ALR's were issued on purple stock that automatically printed boxes on the back.

Purple stock had the boxes (15 of them) at the front I think.

 

[yorkie]

Let us know what response they provide. I am not happy with the way FSR are treating some customers at present (they are refusing to honour itineraries, but that's another story).

 

[headshot119]

I remember two friends of mine being issued with Ride Cornwall Day Rangers (or whatever the exact name is) complete with a date box, an XC TM insisted to see the date boxes then insisted they wrote the date in. :roll:

 

[furgus2]

I have now written to FSR about what happened and I will certainly post their response here

 

[flymo]

This has been going on for years. I remember back in the early 90s I had a 7 day ALR and the conductor/guard insisted I fill in the date in the boxes which were on the back of the ticket. There were 10 boxes and I asked him what would happen if I had a 14 day rover and how could I possibly fill in dates in all of the boxes? He said he would go and ask someone but as it has now been around 20 years I guess he never found out..?

 

[furgus2]

I did say that I would post Scotrail's response to my letter here. Well, the situation is still unresolved. I've now received two letters from their Customer Relations department insisting that All Line Rovers are only valid when accompanied by a tick box ticket. I'm still pursuing the issue.

 

[yorkie]

I did say that I would post Scotrail's response to my letter here. Well, the situation is still unresolved. I've now received two letters from their Customer Relations department insisting that All Line Rovers are only valid when accompanied by a tick box ticket. I'm still pursuing the issue.

Scotrail don't appear to be taking complains from several forum members seriously, so I am not at all surprised.

In fact, I'd be surprised if Scotrail acted honourably, and I fully expect them to make up excuses and spout nonsense. They think (perhaps correctly) that most passengers will not pursue the matter and accept being fobbed off.

I am glad you are pursuing this and I suggest you write to Passenger Focus, the DfT (report it as a franchise breach as they are seemingly not accepting valid tickets) and ATOC.

 

[causton]

Scotrail don't appear to be taking complains from several forum members seriously, so I am not at all surprised.

In fact, I'd be surprised if Scotrail acted honourably, and I fully expect them to make up excuses and spout nonsense. They think (perhaps correctly) that most passengers will not pursue the matter and accept being fobbed off.

I am glad you are pursuing this and I suggest you write to Passenger Focus, the DfT (report it as a franchise breach as they are seemingly not accepting valid tickets) and ATOC.

I am travelling on ScotRail on an ALR on Monday. Let's see how I get on with it!

(in regards to the Ride Cornwall issue, yes I did get one with tickboxex printed, yes I did fill in the date and yes it was never asked for )

 

[michael769]

I am glad you are pursuing this and I suggest you write to Passenger Focus, the DfT (report it as a franchise breach as they are seemingly not accepting valid tickets) and ATOC.

Franchise breaches relating to Scotrail need to be reported to The Scottish Ministers not the DfT who will just pass it on delaying any response.

I have had some success raising an issue via the minister's mailbox in the past asking that it be forwarded to whoever deals with the Scotrail franchise. I got a response within a couple of weeks from someone at Transport Scotland and they do seem to be on the ball.

scottish.ministers@scotland.gsi.gov.uk

 

[furgus2]

This has now been sorted. I've now had an email from a manager at Scotrail Head Office confirming that I was right all along: the tick box card is not required and that staff at the Customer Contact Centre in Fort William will be re-briefed.
I have mentioned that there is also a need to ensure Conductors know this too.