ALR Charter Refunds

[First class]

Hi,

Any idea how an All Line Rover refund for delay is supposed to be worked out?

I bought a PRIV STD ALR for £107.50...#

Had a 64 minute delay Leeds-Kings Cross.

Now, I thought I would be getting a refund of the Anytime Single PRIV priced at £27.90. (Seemingly calculated like a season).

Instead, East Coast have refunded me only £10.75 which seems to be 10% of the rover price.

Any idea if this refund is actually correct or have I been short changed?

 

[rail-britain]

I did this last year on every train that was delayed by 30 minutes or more, depending on their charter

Normally the compensation is equivalent to 25% to 50% of the return fare between the points that you travelled, for the ticket type used (depending on length of delay)
However you would need to contact East Coast to see how they calculated the amount
You therefore should have received at least 25% of the return fare for a PRIV rate between the points you claimed for

Therefore if the train was Leeds - Kings Cross, the use the point at which the train was at least that late
If you only claimed for Doncaster - Peterborough, then that is all you receive
Equally if the train is 61 minutes late at Newcastle, but 29 minutes late at Kings Cross then you would receive NOTHING...

 

[John @ home]

Therefore if the train was Leeds - Kings Cross, the use the point at which the train was at least that late
If you only claimed for Doncaster - Peterborough, then that is all you receive
Equally if the train is 61 minutes late at Newcastle, but 29 minutes late at Kings Cross then you would receive NOTHING...

Sorry, there's at least one typo in the above and I can't quite work out what you mean, rail-britain.

Are you suggesting that an ALR holder travelling from Aberdeen - Newcastle on an Aberdeen - Kings Cross train, and disembarking 61 minutes late at Newcastle, is entitled to no compensation should that train later arrive 29 minutes late at Kings Cross?

If so, this depends on a meaning of the word journey which I cannot reconcile with either the National Rail Conditions of Carriage or the ordinary usage of the word in the English language.

 

[rail-britain]

Can't see any type error

I am not sure what points you travelled on
However, it depends on how much you want to bend the rules...

Leeds - Kings Cross
You only travel Leeds - Doncaster, arriving 31 minutes late = compensation
The train arrives in Kings Cross 29 minutes late, you would be entitled to no compensation

I had reservations on the Edinburgh - Kings Cross Sunday 21 June 2009
Due to late running I had to get off at Peterborough (55 minutes late)
However I actually travelled on the Edinburgh - Newcastle Cross Country, so claimed for that service

I had one service that was over 1 hour late, and that was a full refund (50% First Class return Inverness - Euston, excluding berth supplement);
Friday 26 June 2009
I had to swap at Crewe on to an alternative service

http://www.rail-britain.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=517

 

[richw]

Sorry, there's at least one typo in the above and I can't quite work out what you mean, rail-britain.

Are you suggesting that an ALR holder travelling from Aberdeen - Newcastle on an Aberdeen - Kings Cross train, and disembarking 61 minutes late at Newcastle, is entitled to no compensation should that train later arrive 29 minutes late at Kings Cross?

If so, this depends on a meaning of the word journey which I cannot reconcile with either the National Rail Conditions of Carriage or the ordinary usage of the word in the English language.

what he is saying i think is if you got off at an intermediate station then the train was late enough to qualify for compensating, however if you were travelling to kings cross then the train made enough time up to not be late enough to warrant compensation for kings cross passengers!

 

[yorkie]

No wonder certain people get virtually free ALRs! I really think they are far too generous with compensation on ALRs. If EC had given the £27.90 back that the OP had expected, just 3 such delays in a week (easily done) would result in an almost free ALR. 4 would be in profit!!!

 

[First class]

Previously I have actually managed to make a profit (in RTVs) from an ALR. Even then, various companies used different formulas.

I would say put a cap on, but that would be seemingly unfair if you got unlucky with long delays...

 

[rail-britain]

If you were claiming from one TOC, then they may well put a limit in place
Most of the claim forms require the ticket number, so clearly they have the ability to

Virgin Trains may well do this, as they were the slowest to respond

FSR were the fastest to respond, even offering vouchers where they did not have to!
The 90 minute delay on the Inverness sleeper was effectively an 11% refund
Had all the sleepers been similarly late then that alone would have been a full refund

Details for the level of compensation are not exactly clear
I asked FSR how they calculated, and 50% of the return fare is a clever way of reducing what they pay out (rather than the single fare)

 

[sheff1]

Previously I have actually managed to make a profit (in RTVs) from an ALR. Even then, various companies used different formulas.

I would say put a cap on, but that would be seemingly unfair if you got unlucky with long delays...

If a 7 day ticket is £107.50 then a daily cap of £15.35 would be perfectly fair. Anything higher could result in a 'refund' of more than you had paid for that day.

In the case of exceptional delays, then a further ex gratia payment may be appropriate but this should be on a case by case basis rather than a standard formula.

 

[142094]

How easy would it be to abuse this system? Surely someone could just buy an ALR and apply for refunds for various different delays, even if they didn't actually travel on the train in question. All it would take is a look at a few of the real time journey planners and a bit of thought to ensure that no two claims for the same operator at the same time but different services woud be made.