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ALR and Senior Railcard
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Paul Kelly
Verified Rep - BR Fares
I can't see how it would be enforceable, since you can always argue that your journey extends beyond the NSE area and you are simply breaking your journey in the NSE area before continuing later. So I assume it doesn't apply.
If interpreted literally, then the restriction does apply; then again, if the Network Railcard conditions are interpreted literally, then the £13 minimum fare on that railcard would also apply 'per journey' rather than 'per ticket', with the latter interpretation being the case in practice.
This begs the question as to what constitutes a journey. Does it mean starting at A and finishing at B without a break except to change stations e.g. Across London. Then again you can get a ticket that allows break of journey. How long can the break be?
Your journey is obviously to a destination beyond the Network Area, as you surely wouldn't be using an expensive ticket such as an ALR for such a short journey. Would you?
Of course, you may change your mind later as to what your destination is, and you may break your journey without restriction on an ALR.
End of.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
I'm not sure I fully understand how this point engages with the OP's question, but to respond to it, the conditions of the Network Railcard specifically state 'journey':
That's an entirely different matter, but what jkdd77 is getting at is that it hints that it is the journey that has to cost £13 minimum, not necessarily the cost of any individual ticket. However ticket issuing systems apply the £13 minimum to each ticket.
I agree it's not at all relevant to the OPs question.
I agree it's not at all relevant to the OPs question.
The point I was trying to make was that TOCs seem to be happy to define "journey" in published T & Cs to mean "ticket held" when it suits them to do so, as with the Network Railcard minimum fare.
To be fully on-topic, it raises the related question of whether a SDR/ SOR from a station within the Network Area "A" to a destination outside the Network Area "C", discounted with a Senior Railcard, and which permits BoJ, could be used to "finish short" at an intermediate station "B" within the Network Area, at a time when the corresponding CDR for the journey actually made* would not have been valid.
*presuming this to be "A" to "B"
If, and only if, the answer to the above question is "yes", then it would appear that a SRN-discounted ALR would be valid for an equivalent journey within the Network Area.
Condition 6 of the Senior Railcard conditions states:
This seems to me to be somewhat vague, and contrasts with the clarity of the conditions attaching to the Two Together Railcard, where it is absolutely clear that an ALR discounted with that railcard is not valid for use before 09:30.
The FAQs state:
This raises the question of the definition of the phrases "tickets", and "journeys", in the context of an ALR.
I don't believe that the restriction on Senior Railcard holders morning peak services within the Network Area was actually intended to cover ALRs, particularly given that ALRs now of course have their own morning peak restrictions on boarding or alighting at certain services prior to 10am.
It could be argued that the phrase "please refer to time restrictions" tells the passenger to refer to these restrictions (only), such that a SRN-discounted railcard is valid on any other train, or on the same train when not used for boarding or alighting at the said stations. Furthermore, I suspect that a passenger who followed the advice to ask ticket office staff or NRE for guidance on validity would get different answers from different people.
To be fully on-topic, it raises the related question of whether a SDR/ SOR from a station within the Network Area "A" to a destination outside the Network Area "C", discounted with a Senior Railcard, and which permits BoJ, could be used to "finish short" at an intermediate station "B" within the Network Area, at a time when the corresponding CDR for the journey actually made* would not have been valid.
*presuming this to be "A" to "B"
If, and only if, the answer to the above question is "yes", then it would appear that a SRN-discounted ALR would be valid for an equivalent journey within the Network Area.
Condition 6 of the Senior Railcard conditions states:
This seems to me to be somewhat vague, and contrasts with the clarity of the conditions attaching to the Two Together Railcard, where it is absolutely clear that an ALR discounted with that railcard is not valid for use before 09:30.
The FAQs state:
This raises the question of the definition of the phrases "tickets", and "journeys", in the context of an ALR.
I don't believe that the restriction on Senior Railcard holders morning peak services within the Network Area was actually intended to cover ALRs, particularly given that ALRs now of course have their own morning peak restrictions on boarding or alighting at certain services prior to 10am.
It could be argued that the phrase "please refer to time restrictions" tells the passenger to refer to these restrictions (only), such that a SRN-discounted railcard is valid on any other train, or on the same train when not used for boarding or alighting at the said stations. Furthermore, I suspect that a passenger who followed the advice to ask ticket office staff or NRE for guidance on validity would get different answers from different people.
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