almost half past nine

[Deerfold]

Certainly in some areas councils will allow usage prior to 0930 - particularly on services they are subsidising anyway. I can get to my nearest large town on a bus leaving before 0900 despite it being an hourly service

And the services from Heathrow out to Slough/Maidenhead allow it - certainly beyond the normal free bus limit if not the whole route

But there is always a problem with cut offs - fine tuning what they are rather than discretion is an answer - though maybe a bureaucratic nightmare

If a passenger has a Freedom Pass this is valid on the First services between Heathrow and the London boundary at all times in line with validity on TfL-sponsored services. Slough council also allows use before 0930 for its pass holder. Strictly speaking other ENCTS passes are only valid from 0930 but it wouldn't surprise me if they were accepted as there'll be very few of them.

 

[bb21]

The areas this company serve btw do not allow 'split' tickets (in both council and operator rules), and state that passengers boarding before 0930 must pay the single fare to their destination.

I don't in all honesty see how this could work.

Pass boards and states the destination as the next fare stage. Upon arriving, the pass disembarks and then reboards claiming that he/she now needs to go further and therefore pays the correct fare from that fare stage, which is now free.

I doubt any driver would refuse.

 

[Ivo]

We, and ultimately the bus company, were always deemed to be wrong. They could be quite abusive when they pointed out their friend 2 minutes further up the road was allowed the fare, but they weren't; as though were we personally discriminating against them.

On a rural route a two-minute interval can be anything up to 1½ miles. Does this make it discrimination on a village-by-village basis? If they were that bothered they should have complained to the council.

Things like this show that a lot of people with passes treat at as something they have a "God-given" right to - which is ridiculous. You are given the pass as a means of opening up public transport to you - not something you should have just because you should.

The same applies whenever passes expire, and people don't bother to replace them. Over Easter I was on a bus in Southend and - being five years since the national scheme was introduced - a lot of passes they had expired on 31 March 2013 were used to claim free travel. To get back at people not bothering, Arriva disabled the readers at the request of the council to force people to show their passes as they had until 2011. The driver on this one bus showed me seven different passes he had withdrawn in about three hours; this became eight about five minutes after I got on. Needless to say, those who hadn't bothered to get their new ones out weren't exactly happy!

The areas this company serve btw do not allow 'split' tickets (in both council and operator rules), and state that passengers boarding before 0930 must pay the single fare to their destination.

I don't in all honesty see how this could work.

It can't - it's as simple as that. I've done this before now and never experienced any problems at all; even on buses whose companies are renowned for being passenger-unfriendly.

the simple fact is, the pass is valid from 0930 onwards. It is not fair for someone to have to pay a full single fare of £X for the sake of a bus being timed to depart at 0928 instead of 0930; why shouldn't a single fare to the first fare stage served at or after 0930 suffice?

Pass boards and states the destination as the next fare stage. Upon arriving, the pass disembarks and then reboards claiming that he/she now needs to go further and therefore pays the correct fare from that fare stage, which is now free.

Or the inevitable scenario of two buses coming at once - and jumping off of one in favour of the other at the fare stage...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can I enter this debate as both my good lady wife at 71 and I at 68 are both holders of the ENTCS pass and are very aware of the restrictions that apply. To us, a cut-off point of 0930 is quite a reasonable time and we always plan bus journeys that start after that time. If we need at attend Macclesfield Hospital for an early appointment that means we cannot use the bus, we will use the 4 x 4.

We have found the use of these passes in England whilst on holidays to be very useful and it does not take much trouble to download timetables from the internet to ensure we have the correct time information. For example, we are basing ourselves at the Royal George Hotel at Bognor Regis from next Wednesday for a period of five days and there are bus stops on either side of the road outside where the number 60 bus to Chichester and to Midhurst stop. By the time we have had our cooked breakfast, returned to the room to gather what we will need, the time will be after 0930. When we stayed at Sandown on the Isle of Wight, Falmouth, Truro, St Ives, Brighton and at York in recent times, we always had pre-prepared ourselves with timetable information.

 

[starrymarkb]

I once took a complaint that the 09:27 had run to time. Pass refused. Also had one a couple of days ago kicked off for trying to delay a bus so they could use a pass.

 

[Ivo]

Now what happens if the passenger refuses and gets in an argument, and during the process 0930 is reached?

There must be someone out there who tries this one regularly :roll:

Well...

Also had one a couple of days ago kicked off for trying to delay a bus so they could use a pass.

Like I said - there had to be someone, somewhere. LEARN THE RULES!!!

Can I enter this debate as both my good lady wife at 71 and I at 68 are both holders of the ENTCS pass and are very aware of the restrictions that apply. To us, a cut-off point of 0930 is quite a reasonable time and we always plan bus journeys that start after that time. If we need at attend Macclesfield Hospital for an early appointment that means we cannot use the bus, we will use the 4 x 4.

We have found the use of these passes in England whilst on holidays to be very useful and it does not take much trouble to download timetables from the internet to ensure we have the correct time information. For example, we are basing ourselves at the Royal George Hotel at Bognor Regis from next Wednesday for a period of five days and there are bus stops on either side of the road outside where the number 60 bus to Chichester and to Midhurst stop. By the time we have had our cooked breakfast, returned to the room to gather what we will need, the time will be after 0930. When we stayed at Sandown on the Isle of Wight, Falmouth, Truro, St Ives, Brighton and at York in recent times, we always had pre-prepared ourselves with timetable information.

Well said Paul, and demonstrative of how the pass should be used when in unfamiliar (and even familiar in some cases) territory. It really isn't hard in this age of near-total freedom of information, especially on the Internet, to access the timetables you need.

So often people will complain when their pass isn't valid - even if the next bus is but a few minutes away...

As an example, I have perfected a means of getting to Southend and back on my pass. There is more than enough help out there to plan even difficult trips, and by extension to work said trips around the validity of an ENCTS card.

 

[90019]

In some areas (e.g. Edinburgh) it was permitted for pensioners to travel on the buses at all times, even peak periods.

It still is, and means we get plenty of people commuting using concession passes.

LEARN THE RULES!!!

Also, learn that an English concession pass isn't valid in Scotland.
Most people seem to be fine with that, be we get a few that do make a fuss, and there's the occasional message over the radio about people with English concessions repeatedly trying to use them despite having been told they can't.

 

[CROMPTON 33]

we can use the bus pass from 9.00 mon-fri down here.

 

[Ivo]

we can use the bus pass from 9.00 mon-fri down here.

Local concession. There are plenty of areas that allow 0900 - 0930 and 2300 - 0000, and more still in some areas, but by no means all.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Can I enter this debate as both my good lady wife at 71 and I at 68 are both holders of the ENTCS pass and are very aware of the restrictions that apply. To us, a cut-off point of 0930 is quite a reasonable time and we always plan bus journeys that start after that time. If we need at attend Macclesfield Hospital for an early appointment that means we cannot use the bus, we will use the 4 x 4.

I don't travel by bus at all now (although I enjoyed my time driving them with Alexanders Midland many years ago). I do however use the rail concessions of the Strathclyde National Entitlement Card frequently and I note that our terms are more generous than those which apply in Paul Sidorczuk's area (my emphasis below):

Holders of National Entitlement Cards for persons aged 60 or over cannot take advantage of the rail or subway scheme before 09:00 on weekdays. This restriction does not apply to travel by bus.

Holders of National Entitlement Cards for persons aged 60 or over can only claim concessionary fares on rail and Subway services before 09:00 if they have a hospital appointment which they can only get to by travelling before 09:00. Written proof of the appointment needs to be produced when the ticket is purchased.

From 20 May 2012 holders of National Entitlement Cards for persons aged 60 or over cannot take advantage of the rail scheme between 16:30 – 18:00 Monday-Friday (unless travelling to a hospital appointment).

 

[Blindtraveler]

The Scottish system is for now anyway far more generus and that has its pros and cons. I personally will if traveling for work in Edinburgh at peek times pay a single fare as the atitude of some pax and not a few drivers towards passes on busy rush hour runs is not good.
Re ENCTS Split ticketing, I have observed on cross border runs E.G the X95 Carlisle to Edinburgh pax using an English pass from the City Centre to Longtown and paying a cash fare for the remainder of ther run.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Also, learn that an English concession pass isn't valid in Scotland

The same also applies to the use of the English ENCTS pass in Wales. Will this be because that both Scotland and Wales have their own governmental-funded transport budgets that cover such matters ?

 

[starrymarkb]

Yes, Scottish and Welsh passes are not valid in England either...

 

[Swirlz]

Yes, Scottish and Welsh passes are not valid in England either...

Except on the Arriva 1/3/4/X44/X55 into Chester.

 

[starrymarkb]

Except on the Arriva 1/3/4/X44/X55 into Chester.

That's a local arrangement - They can be used on buses that operate in Wales at some point on the route. BUT can't be used on routes entirely in England (or Scotland)

 

[overthewater]

The Scottish system is for now anyway far more generus and that has its pros and cons. I personally will if traveling for work in Edinburgh at peek times pay a single fare as the atitude of some pax and not a few drivers towards passes on busy rush hour runs is not good.
Re ENCTS Split ticketing, I have observed on cross border runs E.G the X95 Carlisle to Edinburgh pax using an English pass from the City Centre to Longtown and paying a cash fare for the remainder of ther run.

Its strange, Scottish passes are valid all the way on the X95 ( Carlisle) and 253 ( berwick) .

 

[34D]

I don't in all honesty see how this could work.

Pass boards and states the destination as the next fare stage. Upon arriving, the pass disembarks and then reboards claiming that he/she now needs to go further and therefore pays the correct fare from that fare stage, which is now free.

I doubt any driver would refuse.

In reality, yes you are correct. However, do note that the instructions from the PTE are very clear that ENCTS travelling before 09:30 pay the fare to their destination if travelling before 09:30.

For the avoidance of doubt, 'split' tickets are allowed in other situations, example wanting to travel beyond the boundary.

There are also some ENCTS-related situations where splits are allowed, for example I think (something like) the blind persons companion on a blind +C pass can only travel within the area before 09:30 (then after 0930 travel on a journey that isn't wholly outside the PTE area.

Not got the book with me, so the above may not be 100% correct.

 

[Ivo]

Its strange, Scottish passes are valid all the way on the X95 ( Carlisle) and 253 ( berwick) .

I wouldn't call that strange. Carlisle and especially Berwick are practically on the border anyway, so there is very little English mileage.

 

[duncanp]

English passes can be used on the 67 between Berwick and Galashiels providing the journey either starts or finishes in England.

http://www.perrymansbuses.co.uk/bus-services/concessionary-bus-passes

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

All said, even allowing for those cross-border exceptions already stated, the English, Welsh and Scottish passes all offer a tremendous amount of bus travel within all three countries for the respective country holders of these passes. I wonder which Chancellor of the Exchequer will be bold enough to suggest the termination of these to save money, being mindful of the ever increasing voting numbers of "the grey vote".

 

[34D]

All said, even allowing for those cross-border exceptions already stated, the English, Welsh and Scottish passes all offer a tremendous amount of bus travel within all three countries for the respective country holders of these passes. I wonder which Chancellor of the Exchequer will be bold enough to suggest the termination of these to save money, being mindful of the ever increasing voting numbers of "the grey vote".

Or at least, further restrictions, which IMV could include a 'regional' restriction (ie North West England, South Wales, etc etc) and potentially stricter time limits.

I would also like to see a ban on people having more than one card, which could be achieved my stricter address checks, a ban on second homes being used for a pass, cancelling of 'superceded' passes, etc etc.

 

[Ivo]

I would also like to see a ban on people having more than one card, which could be achieved my stricter address checks, a ban on second homes being used for a pass, cancelling of 'superceded' passes, etc etc.

I thought this was the case anyway?

 

[34D]

I thought this was the case anyway?

Not at all, at least not up here in Yorkshire.

 

[dzug2]

. I wonder which Chancellor of the Exchequer will be bold enough to suggest the termination of these to save money, being mindful of the ever increasing voting numbers of "the grey vote".

Perhaps more likely to be terminated by stealth - keep the passes, but cease to subsidise the services so that there are no buses to use them on.

Already happened in some areas


And a lot of the grey vote is wealthy enough not to care or subservient enough to accept that it's necessary. (I'm desperately trying not to make that too political a statement.....)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps more likely to be terminated by stealth - keep the passes, but cease to subsidise the services so that there are no buses to use them on.......Already happened in some areas.

Those counties with many rural areas will bear witness to this. My own county of Cheshire East is one such area that has had its bus services with a subsidy viewed most severely. We are fortunate indeed to have jcollins on this website to act as our very own Cheshire East information gatherer on such matters.