Allowed to board by staff but fined

[Stellies]

You will have to get a DSAR for the footage. Normally footage is held for 21 days depending on company.
Time span of 30 mins or less is handy. The scan on your ticket should give a very good estimate.

That's great, thank you, do you know perhaps to whom I would make this request? Would it be National Rail?

 

[Cuthbert]

That's great, thank you, do you know perhaps to whom I would make this request? Would it be National Rail?

The owner of the station first where you were allowed through.
They will direct you to the correct people's.

 

[signed]

Peterborough station is operated by LNER, you can send your request through data.safe@lner.co.uk

Privacy Policy | LNER

Our privacy policy outlines the procedures London North Eastern Railway Limited has regarding the collection and use of any personal information you give us, or we collect.

www.lner.co.uk

CCTV information.


We employ CCTV on our trains and in our stations in order to:

• prevent, deter and detect crime
• apprehend and prosecute offenders, and provide evidence to take action in the courts
• help provide a safer environment for our staff
• protect public safety
• monitor operational and safety-related incidents
• assist with the verification of claims.

You have the right to make a Subject Access Request for CCTV images of yourself and to ask for a copy of them. Please direct any such request to our Data Safe team.


While we will facilitate genuine requests, we will not provide CCTV footage that contains personal data of other individuals, nor will we comply with requests that place an undue burden on LNER, or where we believe the request is disproportionate to its purpose. In such cases, we reserve the right to refuse the request.


We reserve the right to withhold information where permissible by the applicable data protection laws, and we will only retain CCTV images for a reasonable period (this means 28 days or less) or for longer as is required by law or to protect our own legitimate interests. For more details please see below. In certain circumstances, we may need to disclose CCTV images to law enforcement agencies. When this is done, there is a statutory requirement for the organisation that has received the images to adhere to the relevant data protection laws.

 

[Cuthbert]

Peterborough station is operated by LNER, you can send your request through data.safe@lner.co.uk

Privacy Policy | LNER

Our privacy policy outlines the procedures London North Eastern Railway Limited has regarding the collection and use of any personal information you give us, or we collect.

www.lner.co.uk

Thank you.

 

[some bloke]

I told them that a staff member at Peterborough told me it "shouldn’t be a problem" for me to take the train with my original ticket, but they rejected this because I couldn’t provide proof that the staff gave me permission. They said all staff are trained not to give that kind of advice and without proof, they wouldn’t accept this as a valid reason.

Posters may come along and tell you that the appeal is supposed to investigate this and accept your word on this. This is, in theory true. However, this is problematic because anyone can say "well I was told I could board without a ticket" without evidencing that. In reality, any investigation will be:
- Asking you to describe/name the member of staff
- The member of staff being asked "weeks ago this guy got a penalty fare and said you let him through without a ticket and it would be fine - is that true?" to which their answer will inevitably be "that was weeks ago, and I see hundreds of people a day...what guy?" or "I wouldn't say that".
- therefore this avenue is self-defeating

The text of Regulation 16 (4) is worth reading carefully, and the implications spelling out to the appeal body.

"Where the appellant makes representations as part of an appeal under this regulation in relation to any of the matters specified in paragraph (5), it is for the operator on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged to provide evidence that reasonably demonstrates that any fact described by the appellant in relation to any of those matters is not true."

It's not just that the company has to provide evidence on the overall claim that permission was given.

What were the appeal body's exact words?

Did they present evidence from the company at all, or just make an assertion?

You could ask what evidence the company has that in this type of situation, where the fare was less from the station where the passenger asks to board, staff have always or nearly always done what they were trained to do, rather than what they may have thought was pragmatic.

I find it hard to believe that the drafters of the regulations envisaged a general statement about staff training as reasonably showing what happened on a particular occasion.

Also, how can the company account for the fact that you passed the barrier, if a staff member didn't let you through? For the company's evidence to "reasonably demonstrate", it needs to overcome that problem.

It will probably be easier for people to advise you if you post the entire correspondence with identifying details removed. And the adequacy of the company's "evidence" may depend partly on the exact factual claims you made.

 

[Pompey00]

Thank you for this, very helpful. Yes, I did argue under compelling circumstances that the rail company incurred no financial losses, but they did not acknowledge this in the response letter.

I want to get the scanning history as it shows that the ticket would have been rejected just prior to me being let through the barrier (with a time stamp).

I want to get the footage as two to three seconds after the ticket was rejected, I asked the attendant for help, who let me through. This and the above point will counteract their statement that staff are provided with training not to give such advice.

I also have photographic proof that it is physically impossible to go through the barrier without being allowed through by a person, as they are the glass type which would break if I pushed through them. This is the only way to access this platform (I've uploaded a pic) You will note on the right of the picture (where the pink bit is) is where a staff member would stand (under the information sign). This is where the women who let me through was standing.

The barriers I work with can be pushed , jumped over or crawled under , or people find other ways in the station via perimeter fences etc where they look glass so may not be easier to push