Alleged contravention

[Poppybird]

Dear all,

Well this week I received a letter from the Northern Rail Debt Recovery and Prosecution Unit.

"On (date in question) you were spoken to by an authorised member of staff in relation to an alleged contravention of Railway Regulations. An evidential report has been submitted to this office regarding this incident."

The letter goes on to ask for my version of events and not replying in 14 days will result in legal action.

So basically what happened was I was traveling to Manchester Oxford Road, running late for my train and jumped on without a ticket expecting to buy one on the train. The conductor couldn't make it down as it was so busy (morning rush hour) so once at Oxford Road I queued up to buy a ticket. Stupidly I thought I'd buy one from a station I didn't travel from as it was cheaper and unmanned station and was then told I couldn't have travelled from there as they had staff giving out those bits of paper to say I'd come from that station.

I completely panicked when questioned and got worked up into such a state, I told the member of staff that I had come from a different station to the one i actually started from (The station I said is one stop after my actual station) Somehow saying the one after mine just sounded better and I have no idea why I did that and have well and truly dug myself in to a deep hole.

I accept full responsibility for what I did, I've never done that before and haven't done anything like that since and cannot believe I was so stupid all for a few pounds difference.

So do I now continue to state that I had travelled from the station I said in my statement (which I was made to sign, along with my ticket) and obviously tell them how sorry I am and suggest a substantial out of court settlement or do I tell them the truth and more than likely expect them to prosecute for false information....?

Obviously a lot could have happened between the date of the offence mid February to Tuesday when I received the letter so they could well have looked for me on CCTV? Are they likely do have done this?

I really have messed up here and like an absolute idiot made it even worse for myself. There's a post about 4 pages by someone who did the exact same thing about the wrong station but has yet to receive a letter so if anyone could advise that'd be great.

I know I've behaved like such an idiot and am so worried about all this that I just don't know what to do anymore. I just can't have them take me to court. I can't believe I was ever so stupid to do it.

Thanks for reading.

 

[northwichcat]

Which station did you actually travel from and which one did you say you travelled from?

 

[Poppybird]

I travelled from Widnes that morning and stupidly said Warringon when questioned. I can't even explain why I did so, I just completely went into panic mode and just blurted whatever came to me.

 

[telstarbox]

If this is your first offence and you respond in the 'right' way it is likely that you will be able to settle the matter without having to go to court. CCTV is usually used to identify repeat offenders and would not have been needed to identify you in your case - you have been sent the letter because you were questioned at Oxford Road.

For future reference, you are not allowed to board the train without a ticket if there are facilities to buy a ticket at the station - there is a ticket office at Widnes which is open in the morning. In the Northern area, passengers have traditionally been allowed to buy on board regardless but Northern are now cracking down on this.

From now on ensure that you always buy a ticket before you board the train if there is a ticket office or vending machine at your starting station.

 

[Poppybird]

Thank you for your reply, this is my first and only offence I will ever commit.

Do you think it is wise to admit my actual station of origin in my letter and explain how sorry I am for not taking a calm approach when questioned or just state the station I told the member of staff?

 

[telstarbox]

You need to tell the truth in your letter and stick to the facts. It would be wise to get someone on this forum to proof-read it before you send it (by Private Message if you prefer).

Does the letter mention "Regulation of Railways Act 1889" at all?

 

[Poppybird]

You need to tell the truth in your letter and stick to the facts. It would be wise to get someone on this forum to proof-read it before you send it (by Private Message if you prefer).

Does the letter mention "Regulation of Railways Act 1889" at all?

Yes the letter does mention it, when stating that failure to respond to the correspondence within 14 days legal action will be taken (*Regulations of Railway Act and Railway Byelaws apply)

A paragraph after that the *Regulation of Railways Act 1889: shall be liable on a summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 (£1,000) on the standard scale...and so on in a black box above the bottom section I need to complete.



Thank you - if there is anyone who would be kind enough to proof read my letter who is reading this then please let me know.

 

[furlong]

Continue to lie, force them to present their evidence (which might include CCTV showing you at Widnes/not at Warrington) and let them prosecute you, costing you typically hundreds of pounds, lots more stress, and a criminal record if they succeed?

Come clean, apologise, and hope they offer you an out-of-court settlement?

When in a hole, stop digging!

 

[northwichcat]

I travelled from Widnes that morning and stupidly said Warringon when questioned.

Stupidly I thought I'd buy one from a station I didn't travel from as it was cheaper and unmanned station and was then told I couldn't have travelled from there as they had staff giving out those bits of paper to say I'd come from that station.

There's a contradiction there. Warrington Central is a staffed station.

Sounds strange for Northern to send RPIs to Warrington Central to hand out pieces of paper when it is not one of the closest stations to Manchester and is a TPE managed station with TPE usually having their own RPIs there.

 

[LuSiVe]

I read it as Warrington was the second attempt at their origin station after they had been told they *couldn't* have come from the first.

 

[Poppybird]

I read it as Warrington was the second attempt at their origin station after they had been told they *couldn't* have come from the first.

I bought a ticket for another station and then when questioned I told them I came from Warrington rather than Widnes.


Thank you for all your replies so far, I feel like an absolute idiot and have made sure every time since the incident I'm at the station early to purchase a ticket.
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Continue to lie, force them to present their evidence (which might include CCTV showing you at Widnes/not at Warrington) and let them prosecute you, costing you typically hundreds of pounds, lots more stress, and a criminal record if they succeed?

Come clean, apologise, and hope they offer you an out-of-court settlement?

When in a hole, stop digging!

Thank you, after it happened and I'd calmed down I wrote a draft letter of what had happened so have always know to give an honest account but glad to hear it from someone else.

 

[island]

Northern Rail is often known to settle cases like this for £80 plus the fare avoided assuming you haven't come to their attention in the past, but I would reiterate what's been said above about being scrupulously honest from here on in. Remember that it's not permissible to just jump on and buy on the train or at the other end if there are ticketing facilities at the station where you start your journey, even if it's busy/you're late.

 

[northwichcat]

What's not clear is whether Poppybird used the slow Northern service or used the faster EMT service but was caught by the Northern RPI at Oxford Road. Would Northern act any differently if they are chasing up fare evasion on behalf of another TOC?

If it was a 4 car EMT service then you wouldn't expect to see the guard that frequently - he/she would probably only do one end to end check between Liverpool and Manchester and if you sit in the section they've already checked after boarding at Widnes then you won't see them until the Manchester-Sheffield section.

 

[Chapeltom]

What's not clear is whether Poppybird used the slow Northern service or used the faster EMT service but was caught by the Northern RPI at Oxford Road. Would Northern act any differently if they are chasing up fare evasion on behalf of another TOC?

If it was a 4 car EMT service then you wouldn't expect to see the guard that frequently - he/she would probably only do one end to end check between Liverpool and Manchester and if you sit in the section they've already checked after boarding at Widnes then you won't see them until the Manchester-Sheffield section.

From experience, between Liverpool/Chinley and vice versa you usually only see the guard once, maybe twice on some occasions. Between Stockport and South Parkway earlier, it was a lightly loaded train yet the guard only appeared on the approach to WAC.

It sounds to me though that the OP travelled on a Northern service.

 

[maniacmartin]

I bought a ticket for another station and then when questioned I told them I came from Warrington rather than Widnes.

So it was only on your third attempt that you actually told the truth?

 

[SussexMan]

So it was only on your third attempt that you actually told the truth?

No, I don't think they've told the truth to the TOC yet.

 

[reb0118]

So it was only on your third attempt that you actually told the truth?

No, I may be wrong but Northern are of the belief that the OP boarded at Warrington Central [WAC]. She in fact, if we can believe her, boarded at Widnes [WID] but has not yet informed Northern of that fact.

Like others on the board I feel that she should "come clean" in her reply to Northern and hope for an administrative penalty, usually £80 + the cost of the missing fare.

IMO It does not matter if the OP travelled on an EMT or a Northern train as the revenue is split amongst the various TOCs (TPE may also get a share?). Any servant of the railway can take details & submit a report.

 

[cuccir]

If going for an out of court settlement, isn't it better to stick to the Warrington line? Of course if it came to court that would look worse, but if it never gets there then admitting a further lie when writing to Northern only gives them extra evidence to use in court against you!

 

[telstarbox]

No, it's best to be honest when asking for a settlement, and also because the OP doesn't know what other evidence Northern may have.

 

[moonface123]

If going for an out of court settlement, isn't it better to stick to the Warrington line? Of course if it came to court that would look worse, but if it never gets there then admitting a further lie when writing to Northern only gives them extra evidence to use in court against you!

I think the best course of action is to come clean. The TOC is not silly. If they pin her down and decide to find out (to make an example, etc.) where she came from, they can easily use the CCTV footages. They can check if the station in question was really manned and people were given "permit to travel" tickets as the OP mentioned.

As someone said earlier on - when you are in a hole, stop digging.

I would come clean and apologise for the action and hope for the best. If it goes to court (and the OP won't have come cleane by that date), it will make the matter look much worse. Even if they have no evidence at this point, they are not silly. They heard these excuses many times and if the OP makes then fustrated by sticking to the lie - they may decide to investigate further and then they will find out what has happend...

This is my 2c only...