All line rover validity

[Pauldubs]

Am I correct in thinking that an All Line Rover is valid on a 10:00 LNER departure from Kings Cross on a weekday?
Many thanks
Paul

 

[spyinthesky]

Yes

 

[Mcr Warrior]

But not before 1000 Mondays to Fridays from Kings Cross (if using LNER). Saturdays, Sundays + Bank Holidays are excepted.

Think that makes the first valid departure the 1000 to Aberdeen.

 

[Pauldubs]

Thanks for prompt replies - the 10:00 Aberdeen was the departure I was thinking of getting o

 

[tram21]

Is it correct that, while you cannot board a train at Kings Cross before 10am, you could board a train originating from Kings Cross at Stevenage, for example, before 10am?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Boarding or alighting from an LNER service at Stevenage isn't allowed on an All Line Rail Rover either, before 1000 Mondays to Fridays, (Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays excepted).

 

[LA50041]

Is it correct that, while you cannot board a train at Kings Cross before 10am, you could board a train originating from Kings Cross at Stevenage, for example, before 10am?

No, Stevenage is also barred until 10:00

 

[tram21]

Boarding or alighting from an LNER service at Stevenage isn't allowed on an All Line Rail Rover either, before 1000 Mondays to Fridays, (Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays excepted).

Oh oops sorry, I should have checked more carefully to get a better example!!

Say West Hampstead Thameslink. Could you get on a train there at 6am, despite the fact you'd have to wait until 10am at St Pancras?

 

[LA50041]

Oh oops sorry, I should have checked more carefully to get a better example!!

Say West Hampstead Thameslink. Could you get on a train there at 6am, despite the fact you'd have to wait until 10am at St Pancras?

it's only EMR that you cant use from STP, so THameslink is fine

 

[Mcr Warrior]

One workaround in order to be able to board a Northbound LNER service before 1000, might possibly be to get to Peterborough by using another train operator, and then change there? Thoughts?

 

[LA50041]

One workaround in order to be able to board a Northbound LNER service before 1000, might possibly be to get to Peterborough by using another train operator, and then change there? Thoughts?

Perfectly acceptable. Also there is no bar using Hull Trains, Grand Central, Lumo or Great Northern can be used at any time

 

[Peter Mugridge]

One workaround in order to be able to board a Northbound LNER service before 1000, might possibly be to get to Peterborough by using another train operator, and then change there? Thoughts?

That's exactly what I did almost every day last time I used an ALR back in August 2000; first train from Epsom to London Bridge then dash for the +3 connection at London Bridge for Peterborough on Thameslink, then the first available LNER north from there...

One thing to be aware of is that the ALR is not valid on the Underground at all, so annoyingly you can't use it between the main line termini that way.

 

[andythebrave]

One workaround in order to be able to board a Northbound LNER service before 1000, might possibly be to get to Peterborough by using another train operator, and then change there? Thoughts?

Single to Finsbury Park

 

[Silver Cobra]

One workaround in order to be able to board a Northbound LNER service before 1000, might possibly be to get to Peterborough by using another train operator, and then change there? Thoughts?

That's definitely permitted. It's what I did for both of the ALRs I used back in 2016 and 2018 (starting my journeys from Arlesey helping to give a reason to travel to Peterborough and change there).

In most cases to change at Peterborough would require using Thameslink, but there is the one northbound Grand Central service each day that calls at Peterborough (the 0826 from Kings Cross to Sunderland). That could be useful for anyone wanting to travel on the 0830 LNER Kings Cross to Edinburgh service.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Single to Finsbury Park

How does that help? Does LNER call at Finsbury Park?

 

[jfollows]

How does that help? Does LNER call at Finsbury Park?

Split tickets, no need to stop if one of them is a season/rover ticket. I probably wouldn’t do it myself.

 

[Segedunum]

These rules are rarely enforced from experience, but I have had one (infamous) LNER TM based at Newcastle who feigned innocent interest in my ALR then quickly turned it into a thorough interrogation to ensure I wasn't staying on his service to Kings Cross.

But, seeing as they were originally put there thanks to some press attention pointing out how they could be used as a cheaper alternative to long-distance seasons, its probably best not to take the mick even if strictly 'allowed' (eg with a single to Finsbury Park) as it'll only result in more restrictions.

 

[Watershed]

How does that help? Does LNER call at Finsbury Park?

Non-stop splits are fine when using a ranger or rover, so there's no need for LNER to call there for it to be a valid split in principle.

The more contentious part (to which there's no clear answer) is whether you are deemed to be 'boarding' a train at Kings Cross, within the meaning of restriction code AL, if you use the combination of a KGX-FPK single and an ALR.

 

[rocrat]

Non-stop splits are fine when using a ranger or rover, so there's no need for LNER to call there for it to be a valid split in principle.

The more contentious part (to which there's no clear answer) is whether you are deemed to be 'boarding' a train at Kings Cross, within the meaning of restriction code AL, if you use the combination of a KGX-FPK single and an ALR.

Perhaps a stupid question, but couldn't you use a FPK-KGX single and then the "boarding" can be anywhere else?

I'm guessing this doesn't help though if your LNER train stops at SVG?

 

[Tetchytyke]

The restriction wording is as follows:

The All Line Rail Rover is NOT valid for boarding or alighting train services operated by Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, or LNER before 10:00 Mondays to Fridays at the following stations:
Birmingham New Street
Bedford
London Euston
London Kings Cross
London St Pancras International
Luton
Luton Airport Parkway
Milton Keynes Central
Stevenage
Watford Junction

I know opinions vary, but I don't see how the use of a Kings Cross to Finsbury Park single gets around this restriction. Given LNER doesn't stop at Finsbury Park, you are still using the ALR to board at King Cross, albeit in conjunction with another ticket.

There's no restriction on GTR so using their trains to Peterborough and then boarding LNER there is entirely acceptable.

To answer the OP, the wording is "before 1000" and so the ticket is valid on a train that is scheduled to depart at exactly 1000.

 

[Watershed]

Perhaps a stupid question, but couldn't you use a FPK-KGX single and then the "boarding" can be anywhere else?

That would be the argument in favour of it being valid. The counter-argument which LNER might make would be that, as you couldn't validly board the LNER train at Kings Cross without the All Line Rover (since the train doesn't stop at Finsbury Park), you are still 'boarding' at Kings Cross with your combination of tickets - hence you fall within the scope of the restriction.

I'm guessing this doesn't help though if your LNER train stops at SVG?

If you consider it to be a valid split from KGX then the fact the train stops at SVG isn't an issue; the restriction is only on boarding or alighting, not intermediate calling points. For example, it's perfectly valid to take a XC service that runs through Birmingham New Street at a barred time, provided you don't get on or off there.

 

[FenMan]

A question, "boarding or alighting" XC services at Birmingham New Street is not permitted before 1000 M-F.

But is the ALR valid for catching, say, the 0715 XC service from Reading and travelling to Manchester? I'd be on a XC train stopping at New Street well before 1000 but I wouldn't be "boarding or alighting" there.

 

[jfollows]

A question, "boarding or alighting" XC services at Birmingham New Street is not permitted before 1000 M-F.

But is the ALR valid for catching, say, the 0715 XC service from Reading and travelling to Manchester? I'd be on a XC train stopping at New Street well before 1000 but I wouldn't be "boarding or alighting" there.

Yes, the post immediately above yours says this.

 

[Watershed]

A question, "boarding or alighting" XC services at Birmingham New Street is not permitted before 1000 M-F.

But is the ALR valid for catching, say, the 0715 XC service from Reading and travelling to Manchester? I'd be on a XC train stopping at New Street well before 1000 but I wouldn't be "boarding or alighting" there.

Yes, that's fine. It's only "boarding or alighting" that is barred, not passing through there.

Of course that means the restriction is largely unenforceable; if checked, you could say you plan to travel beyond Birmingham, and nothing stops you from changing your mind afterwards... at the gateline you could have travelled on any train or operator.

 

[FenMan]

Yes, that's fine. It's only "boarding or alighting" that is barred, not passing through there.

Of course that means the restriction is largely unenforceable; if checked, you could say you plan to travel beyond Birmingham, and nothing stops you from changing your mind afterwards... at the gateline you could have travelled on any train or operator.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[dciuk]

What would happen in these instances. Would the ALR be valid before 10am?

1. A set swap happens at Birmingham New Street
2. The service terminates short at Birmingham New Street
3. A service that normally stops at Birmingham New Street, terminates there due to planned engineering work to be replaced by Crosscountry rail replacement bus service between Birmingham New Street and its next scheduled stop

 

[Watershed]

1. A set swap happens at Birmingham New Street

The new unit is continuing the same service, under the same headcode and timetable schedule, therefore if you continue on the new set you are not boarding or alighting the service from a holistic viewpoint. In any event, the customer would not be penalised for what is likely an unforeseen event.

2. The service terminates short at Birmingham New Street

If this is an unplanned termination (e.g. due to disruption on the day) then again I would expect the customer would not be penalised. Think of what an online/app-based journey planner would say if applying the restriction code - it would not know about the termination when you buy your ticket.

3. A service that normally stops at Birmingham New Street, terminates there due to planned engineering work to be replaced by Crosscountry rail replacement bus service between Birmingham New Street and its next scheduled stop

Probably not something that happens often on weekdays (and diversions are often used by XC to avoid buses), but if it did, I would suggest the planned nature of the work means you wouldn't be entitled to get off at New Street. You would have to get off at the stop before and change.

This is all highly theoretical though. I would imagine annual ALR sales volumes are in the low four figures at most, and the proportion of those that are likely to be used in one of the above scenarios is miniscule. That is quite apart from whether the XC Train Manager would actually know the detail of the restriction (most would come across ALRs so infrequently that they don't remember the exact rules), and whether they would even try to enforce the restrictions during disruption. During planned engineering works it is perhaps a different story.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Am I right in thinking that an All Line RR has Mon-Fri 10am restrictions leaving London with LNER, EMR etc but no restrictions on trains in say Scotland? Whilst a Spirit of Scotland rover has 9.15 restriction Mon-Fri on most trains with certain route exceptions to this rule?

If so, would I be correct in thinking this a barrier to buying Scottish rover tickets? (my younger day memories are of 7 Day Scottish Rovers having no restrictions enabling really early starts the norm)

 

[Haywain]

Am I right in thinking that an All Line RR has Mon-Fri 10am restrictions leaving London with LNER, EMR etc but no restrictions on trains in say Scotland?

That's absolutely correct.

Whilst a Spirit of Scotland rover has 9.15 restriction Mon-Fri on most trains with certain route exceptions to this rule?

Also correct.

If so, would I be correct in thinking this a barrier to buying Scottish rover tickets?

For some people, it probably is a barrier. I guess Scotrail see too much potential for season tickets being undercut to allow earlier starts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Apr 2025 ==

my younger day memories are of 7 Day Scottish Rovers having no restrictions enabling really early starts the norm

Early starts? In the days of the internal overnight trains the rover could be used continuously!

 

[Robin Edwards]

Early starts? In the days of the internal overnight trains the rover could be used continuously!

Indeed - I recall not needing hotels some nights as I could get trains enabling some kip. I also recall staying on the Edinburgh - Glasgow Queen St shuttles back and forth for hours to enable zzzzz!