All line rover to become time restricted

[nedchester]

NOTE: THIS TOPIC IS FROM MAY 2010. FOR THE RESTRICTIONS INTRODUCED IN JANUARY 2011 SEE THIS TOPIC


A report on wnxx forum that the All Line Rover to be restricted on most 'Inter City' routes.

The price is being reduced by a mere 10% to compensate. Rip off Britain strikes again.
http://www.wnxxforum.com/interactive/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12087

Apologies if this is a duplicate post, I have a few seconds before my train. The ALR is set to become restricted to some services and routes on Mon - Fri.

Not valid to arrive/depart before 10.00 am M-Fri:

XC to from Birmingham
EC, HT, GC to/from Kings X/Stevenage
VT to/from Euston, Watford, Milton Keynes
EMT to/from St Pancras, Bedford Luton
FGW to/from Padd, Reading, Slough (exception Sleeper)
Valid on all Sleeper services.

The price is being reduced to reflect restrictions, but to me its worthless if you cant travel out of London before 10.00am

Looks to be valid on Anglia at any time still

Dont shoot the messenger

NOTE: THIS TOPIC IS FROM MAY 2010. FOR THE RESTRICTIONS INTRODUCED IN JANUARY 2011 SEE THIS TOPIC

 

[janb]

Any link that doesn't require registration?

 

[Mojo]

It says

Not valid to arrive/depart before 10.00 am M-Fri:

XC to from Birmingham
EC, HT, GC to/from Kings X/Stevenage
VT to/from Euston, Watford, Milton Keynes
EMT to/from St Pancras, Bedford Luton
FGW to/from Padd, Reading, Slough (exception Sleeper)
Valid on all Sleeper services.

 

[Pumbaa]

That's ridiculous. Almost scandalous - a premier unrestricted rover, a long sought after product. Tsk tsk - I might have to think twice about my plans for the summer now!

 

[John @ home]

A report on wnxx forum that the All Line Rover to be restricted on most 'Inter City' routes.

The wnxx discussion claims that the price and validity changes will be from 23 May 2010.

Mmmm. I'm told that the current edition of the internal railway industry fares manual for 23 May - 5 September 2010 still shows the existing prices and availability for

Unlimited travel on all scheduled National Rail services at any time.

On the other hand, perhaps there was a hint in this Northern Rail leaflet, which ends its description of the National Rail All-Line Rail Rover with the words

Prices and conditions correct at 02.01.10, subject to change during 2010.

 

[the sniper]

What?! They could have given some warning! I've got no chance of doing the un-ruined rover before May 23rd... :cry:

We shouldn't expect any better from the TOC's, but this is a step too far! :-x

 

[Zoe]

At least there are no evening peak restrictions at this time.

 

[thefab444]

They'll be next though.

 

[mrcheek]

I think we should wait until we have some official confirmation of this.

 

[theblackwatch]

I think we should wait until we have some official confirmation of this.

Given the 2 people who originally posted about this are both railway staff, I have no reason to doubt it myself. However, it would be nice to be wrong on this occasion!

 

[yorkie]

This is why prices should not be set by ATOC.

The TOCs are not allowed to collude, for example FCC were accused of colluding with EC when they implemented evening peak restrictions shortly after winning the franchise. However if the fare is set centrally by ATOC I don't think that issue arises, so they are able to get away with blanket bans on multiple TOCs.

The 10% fall is a joke considering the loss of value of the ticket, and this follows a significant increase too.


£375 is what should be the correct price for a 7 day standard Rover (before ATOC deliberately increased the price in order to now decrease it!), they then made it £430 and if the price is reducing by 10% it's still over £375.

ATOC clearly planned this all along. The outrageous increase last year was purely so that they could now announce a decrease. The reality is that it is not a decrease; it's a slight increase over the original price and a hefty restriction.

What we need is an organisation to fight ATOC on various issues, of which this is only one.

ATOC have declared war on their customers, this is just a part of the battle they are fighting against us. It's just one insult they have given us, out of many. We need to fight back somehow.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

May I be so bold as to suggest you protest to the new transport minister?

 

[CarterUSM]

This is why prices should not be set by ATOC.

The TOCs are not allowed to collude, for example FCC were accused of colluding with EC when they implemented evening peak restrictions shortly after winning the franchise. However if the fare is set centrally by ATOC I don't think that issue arises, so they are able to get away with blanket bans on multiple TOCs.

The 10% fall is a joke considering the loss of value of the ticket, and this follows a significant increase too.


£375 is what should be the correct price for a 7 day standard Rover (before ATOC deliberately increased the price in order to now decrease it!), they then made it £430 and if the price is reducing by 10% it's still over £375.

ATOC clearly planned this all along. The outrageous increase last year was purely so that they could now announce a decrease. The reality is that it is not a decrease; it's a slight increase over the original price and a hefty restriction.

What we need is an organisation to fight ATOC on various issues, of which this is only one.

ATOC have declared war on their customers, this is just a part of the battle they are fighting against us. It's just one insult they have given us, out of many. We need to fight back somehow.

I fully agree with you, what do you suggest however? Things like this seem to be taking a back seat compared to economic recovery. A case of burying bad news perhaps?

 

[Polarbear]

I had been told this was on the cards some time back by a friend who works for one of the TOC's. I kept quiet as the information was not in the public domain & my friend could have got into a lot of trouble had I started the rumourmill on an internet forum.

The reason cited for the restrictions is that the TOC's are looking to protect their revenues in the morning peak. However, not being an employee of the railway, I'm more of the opinion this is the first stage of the demise of the All Line Rover.

I've had a few discussions with my friend about the All Line over the last few years. It hasn't been advertised for just this reason - revenue abstraction from open returns.

I would have liked to have seen either 4/8 or 8/15 flexi versions of this ticket & suggested this to my friend. I was told at that time, (a few years back now), that if the TOC's woke up to the potential the All Line Rover had to damage their business models, they would attack it & either not participate at all, (I understand some TOC's are less than keen on accepting the All Line as it is), or impose restrictions.

I'm afraid this is just the thin end of the wedge. No doubt demand will fall for the product which will eventually be withdrawn altogether through percieved lack of use.

And as Lord Adonis isn't in charge of transport any longer - who's going to stop ATOC? :roll:

 

[Ivo]

This is no different to operators "stealthily" changing the Peak restrictions as has been discussed (and attacked; rightly so) of late. They are merely trying to force as much money as possible out of the traveller. But I do have one question; if you can't use it before 10:00, when does said restriction start? Midnight? 04:00?

And as Lord Adonis isn't in charge of transport any longer - who's going to stop ATOC? :roll:

Us?

 

[87015]

This is why prices should not be set by ATOC.

All the TOCs could have chosen to oppose the changes made by ATOC though, so blaming it all on ATOC is as blinded as blaming the DfT for every shortage of stock.

 

[455driver]

So you are saying that a company wants to order 53x4coach diesel units and the DafT say no you can have 53x3 coach units, that isnt the DafTs fault!

 

[Old Timer]

....£375 is what should be the correct price for a 7 day standard Rover (before ATOC deliberately increased the price in order to now decrease it!), they then made it £430 and if the price is reducing by 10% it's still over £375.....

This seems incredibly cheap given the cost of some long distance weekly season tickets.

It cannot have gone up that much since BR days. No wonder TOCs are looking to restrict them.

 

[nedchester]

This seems incredibly cheap given the cost of some long distance weekly season tickets.

It cannot have gone up that much since BR days. No wonder TOCs are looking to restrict them.

So that's all right then is it.......?????

 

[Old Timer]

So that's all right then is it.......?????

Logic not your strong point ?

 

[theblackwatch]

This seems incredibly cheap given the cost of some long distance weekly season tickets.

It cannot have gone up that much since BR days. No wonder TOCs are looking to restrict them.

It's actually gone up a fair bit - in 1998 a 7 day std class All Line was £260, now it is £430, so an increase of well over 50% in 12 years which I suspect is quite a bit more than inflation.

 

[Ferret]

How many ALRs actually get sold? I mean - I check a lot of tickets and it's unbelievably rare to see somebody with an All Liner. I mean, after a recent high-profile fraud involving a well known criminal's theft of a ticket machine, you almost began to suspect something was amiss if you did see an ALR because they are that rare!!!

 

[Old Timer]

It's actually gone up a fair bit - in 1998 a 7 day std class All Line was £260, now it is £430, so an increase of well over 50% in 12 years which I suspect is quite a bit more than inflation.

That was my point. Compare that to the cost of normal full price tickets and you see the disparity.

I am surprised its lasted this long.

 

[nedchester]

That was my point. Compare that to the cost of normal full price tickets and you see the disparity.

I am surprised its lasted this long.

Ticket prices in this country are a scandal as are the restrictions for peak travel.

 

[87031]

Disgrace! Whats the point in having the ticket if it isnt unlimited, its an expensive ticket as it is, surely they cant be loosing revenue because of the ALR?:cry:

 

[Old Timer]

Ticket prices in this country are a scandal as are the restrictions for peak travel.

Well they ALL took off under the previous Labour Government you held in high regard.

Everybody moans about ticket prices but nobody has yet specified what they think would be a resonable price for a ticket. Would you like to ?

And at the same time tell us how much YOU and I as taxpayers should fund other people's journeys if the ticket cost does not cover expenses ?

And then tell us how you would fund that, given the current situation franchise wise.

Disgrace! Whats the point in having the ticket if it isnt unlimited, its an expensive ticket as it is, surely they cant be loosing revenue because of the ALR?:cry:

That COULD be a debatable point. If for example your weekly season is higher than the ALR then you would be foolish not to buy one.

A similar situation would apply to someone, say working in London, travelling from the suburbs and travelling home at weekends. An ALR would be considerably cheaper, taken against ticket restrictions on a Friday ?

 

[Metroland]

Typical TOCs. Take the nationalised German railway (which tends to operate a service superior to here in all sort of ways, including train length, late night services and so on).

£48 - get a railcard that gives you 25% off rail fares, that's every one, not picking out certain groups even though they might have pots of money such as old people.

£195 - get a railcard that gives you 50% off rail fares

You also get free tram, bus, underground forwarding travel with all the above, with certain city tickets. Also includes 25% off international tickets.

£3, 221 - get a year long all line rover, with buses, trams and underground too, which is less than quite a few season tickets on one route in the UK.

http://www.bahn.co.uk/i/view/GBR/en/prices/germany/bahncard.shtml

In this country public transport serves nothing but screwing as much as possible out of the traveller, I wouldn't mind if the subsidy was going down, but it's gone the other way by a multiple of 5.

 

[nedchester]

Well they ALL took off under the previous Labour Government you held in high regard.

Everybody moans about ticket prices but nobody has yet specified what they think would be a resonable price for a ticket. Would you like to ?

And at the same time tell us how much YOU and I as taxpayers should fund other people's journeys if the ticket cost does not cover expenses ?

And then tell us how you would fund that, given the current situation franchise wise.

I'd start by looking at how they run the railways in Europe!

The railways cost too much mainly due to the fragmentation of the network. It's cheaper to run one network rather than loads of little bits. I seem to remember it wasn't Labour who privatised it in the first place!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Typical TOCs. Take the nationalised German railway (which tends to operate a service superior to here in all sort of ways, including train length, late night services and so on).

£48 - get a railcard that gives you 25% off rail fares, that's every one, not picking out certain groups even though they might have pots of money such as old people.

£195 - get a railcard that gives you 50% off rail fares

You also get free tram, bus, underground forwarding travel with all the above, with certain city tickets. Also includes 25% off international tickets.

£3, 221 - get a year long all line rover, with buses, trams and underground too, which is less than quite a few season tickets on one route in the UK.

http://www.bahn.co.uk/i/view/GBR/en/prices/germany/bahncard.shtml

In this country public transport serves nothing but screwing as much as possible out of the traveller, I wouldn't mind if the subsidy was going down, but it's gone the other way by a multiple of 5.

Exactly what I was thinking of. How many ALRs can you get for £3221? Hmm!!!

 

[Old Timer]

I'd start by looking at how they run the railways in Europe!

The railways cost too much mainly due to the fragmentation of the network. It's cheaper to run one network rather than loads of little bits. I seem to remember it wasn't Labour who privatised it in the first place!!!

Indeed but it was they who Privatised the greatest part, and contiuned with Privatisation despite promising in Opposition to re-nationalise when all along they had no intention of it !. Still they have been confined to the dustbin of history now.

Don't think that Europe is much better than the UK. The Netherlands for example has the same structure as we have and already the strains have started. Same issues with train services shut down regularly, even on the Schiphol route !

The snow earlier in the year crippled the network.

 

[theblackwatch]

Don't think that Europe is much better than the UK. The Netherlands for example has the same structure as we have and already the strains have started. Same issues with train services shut down regularly, even on the Schiphol route !

But at least they don't appear to have such complex fares that a good proportion of even the staff can't even understand!