Alexandra Palace Contactless Readers Disabled

[trainbow]

I travelled via Thameslink/Great Northern to Alexandra Palace today for the fireworks, and upon arrival, all contactless/oyster readers were disabled and covered up.

A member of GTR staff was shouting something through the platform PA about TfL, but it was unintelligible.

Do they expect the thousands of people travelling through the station to contact TfL tomorrow to fill in their two journeys through the station? Or is there some other arrangement in place?

 

[infobleep]

I travelled via Thameslink/Great Northern to Alexandra Palace today for the fireworks, and upon arrival, all contactless/oyster readers were disabled and covered up.

A member of GTR staff was shouting something through the platform PA about TfL, but it was unintelligible.

Do they expect the thousands of people travelling through the station to contact TfL tomorrow to fill in their two journeys through the station? Or is there some other arrangement in place?

When there are large crowds, they auto complete journeys on a best guess.

Someone else will be able to give more information on this

 

[island]

Indeed, when there is a major event near a certain station, for crowd control reasons they will occasionally set the system up so that all unfinished/unstarted journeys get autocompleted to/from that station in a batch process. Give it a few days to settle down. If there's still no change, then go online or call.

 

[paninaro]

Indeed, when there is a major event near a certain station, for crowd control reasons they will occasionally set the system up so that all unfinished/unstarted journeys get autocompleted to/from that station in a batch process. Give it a few days to settle down. If there's still no change, then go online or call.

Presumably you'd need to start the return leg at that station (Alexandra Palace in this case) so the system would know you'd gone to the event? Or would literally any unfinished journey in London at that time get autocompleted to Alexandra Palace?

 

[Dstock7080]

Auto-complete was activated 1600-0030 for Alexandra Palace and Wood Green stations

 

[greatkingrat]

For many stations the fare to Alexandra Palace will be different to the fare to Wood Green. Do they pick whichever is cheaper?

 

[Haywain]

For many stations the fare to Alexandra Palace will be different to the fare to Wood Green. Do they pick whichever is cheaper?

Wouldn’t it be based on the most likely route or journey to have been taken based on where the card was touched in?

 

[greatkingrat]

Wouldn’t it be based on the most likely route or journey to have been taken based on where the card was touched in?

If you are starting from the north, e.g. New Barnet or Arnos Grove, then it might be obvious which station you are exiting at. But anyone coming from the South will pass through Finsbury Park and could plausibly take either route.

 

[island]

And if the wrong completion station is chosen you can go online or call to get back the extra few pence.

 

[Haywain]

But anyone coming from the South will pass through Finsbury Park and could plausibly take either route.

They could, but I expect that TfL will have a good idea of what is more likely.For instance, if you touched in at Moorgate, are you likely to have changed from National Rail to underground? And if you touched i at Leicester Square are you likely to have made the opposite switch? Some people will change but they will know about normal travel patterns and base it on that.

 

[Snow1964]

And if the wrong completion station is chosen you can go online or call to get back the extra few pence.

But the contactless system is advertised as will always be charged correct fare, if TfL have to guess and get it wrong, then might be better to complain to Advertising Standards Authority than oyster helpline.

Its not good practice to overcharge a customer and make it their job to sort out the problem, that's one that should be for the oyster staff to sift manually and sort out without customer being asked to intervene, after all it was their employers idea to create the extra work

 

[Haywain]

But the contactless system is advertised as will always be charged correct fare,

Could you show us where this is advertised?

 

[Taunton]

And if the wrong completion station is chosen you can go online or call to get back the extra few pence.

What a complete waste of your time, acting as a surrogate accountant for TfL, constantly pawing through your journey history and identifying (if you can) errors, cross-referencing them with your calendar. I know the group here is an outlier, but most contactless users will not even realise. I wonder what limited percentage of those affected actually do this.

I remember asking around our office about this, most people didn't even understand what I was talking about. What if I tap in, and much later tap out, at Canary Wharf. Nothing else. How is it known I went to Alexandra Palace and back, and not some comparable contactless-closed place elsewhere.

 

[Gaelan]

How is it known I went to Alexandra Palace and back, and not some comparable contactless-closed place elsewhere.

Presumably they do this only for one location at a time.

 

[Taunton]

Presumably they do this only for one location at a time.

Well what if I went to Crossharbour DLR instead, where the standalone in/out reader has a long history of being intermittently out of order?

 

[Haywain]

What if I tap in, and much later tap out, at Canary Wharf. Nothing else. How is it known I went to Alexandra Palace and back, and not some comparable contactless-closed place elsewhere.

The alternative would be to charge you for two incomplete journeys. Would you prefer that?

 

[paninaro]

The alternative would be to charge you for two incomplete journeys. Would you prefer that?

Arguably that would be clearer for someone who hadn't been to Alexandra Palace. They'd be a large fare (2 in fact) which they'd be more likely to notice.

 

[Haywain]

Arguably that would be clearer for someone who hadn't been to Alexandra Palace. They'd be a large fare (2 in fact) which they'd be more likely to notice.

Maybe, but the criticism is that they have to check that they have been charged correctly. If that's the case isn't it better to have a low incorrect charge that has a reasonable prospect of being correct?

 

[MikeWh]

I travelled via Thameslink/Great Northern to Alexandra Palace today for the fireworks, and upon arrival, all contactless/oyster readers were disabled and covered up.

A member of GTR staff was shouting something through the platform PA about TfL, but it was unintelligible.

Do they expect the thousands of people travelling through the station to contact TfL tomorrow to fill in their two journeys through the station? Or is there some other arrangement in place?

Were they out of use after the fireworks?

Usually the arriving touch is foregone so as to avoid queues building up on the platforms and creating a dangerous situation. Returning after the event the queues are obviously outside so they expect you to touch in. That triggers the auto complete of the previous unfinished journey.

 

[Surreytraveller]

This does make a mockery of the 'You must always tap in and out' mantra
What if someone cannot tap in and gets stopped by a RPI?

 

[Hadders]

This does make a mockery of the 'You must always tap in and out' mantra
What if someone cannot tap in and gets stopped by a RPI?

Touching-in is unaffected.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Touching-in is unaffected.

The OP stated that the readers were all covered up and disabled

 

[Hadders]

The OP stated that the readers were all covered up and disabled

The ones the OP passed were covered up but that doesn't mean all the readers were covered up. I would imagine that the card readers at the bottom of the stairs were covered up, with arriving passengers being directed to exit via the exit gates on the footbridge that are opened during large scale events. Departing passengers enter the station via the foyer where they can touch in as normal.

 

[jon81uk]

This does make a mockery of the 'You must always tap in and out' mantra
What if someone cannot tap in and gets stopped by a RPI?

One assumes the large-scale events plan has a contingency in place that even if you do somehow get a check on the card mid-journey which doesn't get resolved by tapping out as the gates are open and readers off to exit due to the large volume of people, then when it is resolved by tapping in for the return journey it will all be OK.

If they didn't do this at large events you would have the risk of trains not being able to stop if the platform can't clear quick enough, or people with true unresolved journeys as they rushed when tapping out and didn't actually tap.

TfL have done this at many large events for years and there is information on the website about it.

Touching in and out

Always touch in and touch out on yellow card readers to pay the right fare

tfl.gov.uk

Automatic completion of journeys​

When there are major sporting or entertainment events, we may open gates at stations to help with congestion.

On these occasions you might not be able to touch out, so we'll try to complete your journey for you so you're not charged the maximum fare.

If you're due a refund when we automatically complete a journey, it'll be loaded on to your Oyster card when you next touch in on a yellow card reader. If you used contactless (card or device) we'll refund your bank account.

 

[trainbow]

The ones the OP passed were covered up but that doesn't mean all the readers were covered up. I would imagine that the card readers at the bottom of the stairs were covered up, with arriving passengers being directed to exit via the exit gates on the footbridge that are opened during large scale events. Departing passengers enter the station via the foyer where they can touch in as normal.

On re-entering the station after the event, staff were standing in front of the readers stopping people from using tapping in.

In the end, they autocompleted my journey, but incorrectly due to tap in and out at Blackfriars to grab a coffee from Costa - they assumed I had returned to my origin. Used the online form to correct the record, and it was rectified a few days later with refund issued.

 

[Hadders]

As I understand it the readers are not supposed to be out of use at the start of the return because passengers would be queueing outside the station. I'll bow to @MikeWh much greater knowledge int his area.

 

[MikeWh]

As I understand it the readers are not supposed to be out of use at the start of the return because passengers would be queueing outside the station. I'll bow to @MikeWh much greater knowledge int his area.

Indeed they should be operational for the return. I wonder if this is yet another case of GTR not wanting to understand PAYG.