Alec Baldwin case

[hi2u_uk]

the recent alex baldwin case has made me aware of several things i did not know were true about guns in movies

i. I assumed that fake replica guns were used but apparently real live guns are used
ii I did not know they actually put bullets in the guns

Im also wondering on how many occasions during filming a real gun with live ammunition was shot. Maybe everyone else already knew this !

 

[66701GBRF]

They use all sorts and depends on the production and the scene. They use, rubber guns, airsoft guns, purpose built blank firing, modified real guns with blanks etc.

 

[bahnause]

Live ammunition is not usually used in films. However, it is quite possible for actors to train with real ammunition at a shooting range. But not during filming

As actors are not weapons experts, safety on set is ensured by a armorer. Blanks can also be dangerous at close range. For cinematographic reasons, many rules that should be observed in the real world are not applicable on a film set. Hence the professional supervision.

The same applies to theater productions, where weapons can be handed to actors in a matter of seconds during scene changes. There is no time for the actor to check them, even if they were qualified to do so.

As with the railroad, you often have to rely on the other side to do their job properly and correctly.

 

[66701GBRF]

Live ammunition is not usually used in films. However, it is quite possible for actors to train with real ammunition at a shooting range. But not during filming

As actors are not weapons experts, safety on set is ensured by a armorer. Blanks can also be dangerous at close range. For cinematographic reasons, many rules that should be observed in the real world are not applicable on a film set. Hence the professional supervision.

The same applies to theater productions, where weapons can be handed to actors in a matter of seconds during scene changes. There is no time for the actor to check them, even if they were qualified to do so.

As with the railroad, you often have to rely on the other side to do their job properly and correctly.

Nice to see someone with sense.

Sick of people saying it was Baldwin's fault and that he should have checked and that the number one rule of handling firearms is treat them as live and don't point them at anyone. Two things that on a set are not practical.

 

[bahnause]

Sick of people saying it was Baldwin's fault and that he should have checked and that the number one rule of handling firearms is treat them as live and don't point them at anyone. Two things that on a set are not practical.

We will never know the outcome of the proceedings because the trial was driven into the wall by the prosecution. I have never seen someone speedrun to destroy a case and their career so quickly like the prosecutor did yesterday.

 

[dosxuk]

Two things that on a set are not practical.

Both are practical and expected, apart from during an actual performance, where the exact actions to be performed will have been planned in advance.

This incident did not happen during a recording or rehearsal of a performance, it happened during a walk through and discussion of what was to occur. There is no excuse to either have a loaded weapon on set, or to point the gun at someone and fire it.

Weapons on stage or set are a complex and dangerous environment. There are standard rules and procedures for their handling specifically to ensure that this sort of incident can't happen. What's was going on during this production flew in the face of all of those rules.

 

[nw1]

At the end of the day I think he's been through enough already, and am glad he has been exonerated.

Beyond reasonable doubt he made the assumption that the gun was not live, because that would be the norm.

It was a tragic mistake, and putting him in prison would have achieved nothing. The case alone will ensure that people are more careful in future.

 

[Falcon1200]

The 'little person' involved in this tragedy, the armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, has been found guilty and jailed, but the world-famous actor walks free. Hmmm....

 

[JamesT]

At the end of the day I think he's been through enough already, and am glad he has been exonerated.

Beyond reasonable doubt he made the assumption that the gun was not live, because that would be the norm.

It was a tragic mistake, and putting him in prison would have achieved nothing. The case alone will ensure that people are more careful in future.

He’s not really been exonerated, the trial never got the point of proving his innocence but ended due to the incompetence of the prosecution.
There’s a possibility the dismissal could be appealed and very likely a civil lawsuit brought.

 

[nw1]

The 'little person' involved in this tragedy, the armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, has been found guilty and jailed, but the world-famous actor walks free. Hmmm....

To be honest she shouldn't have been jailed either, IMV. It should have been accepted as a blameless tragedy, and the desired effect of much stricter regulation on film sets would have occurred in any case without having to jail anyone.

 

[Falcon1200]

It should have been accepted as a blameless tragedy, and the desired effect of much stricter regulation on film sets would have occurred in any case without having to jail anyone.

Yes, good points.

 

[bahnause]

The 'little person' involved in this tragedy, the armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, has been found guilty and jailed, but the world-famous actor walks free. Hmmm....

Have you seen what happenden in the Baldwin trial? The prosecution messed up big time. They withheld evidence. Possibly deliberately. One of the prosecutors quit walked out after the lunchbreak because she knew continuing with the case was pointless after the cover up was exposed.

 

[uglymonkey]

"They use, rubber guns, airsoft guns, purpose built blank firing, modified real guns with blanks etc."

Blanks are not harmless either, when I worked at the BBC , the armorer fired a blank into his hand at close range by accident, he was off work for weeks and was extremely lucky to get full function back in his hand.

There should never have been any live rounds at all on a film set at all.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Nice to see someone with sense.

Sick of people saying it was Baldwin's fault and that he should have checked and that the number one rule of handling firearms is treat them as live and don't point them at anyone. Two things that on a set are not practical.

Exactly. I am not a fan of guns but definitely don’t point them at anyone and use camera angles to not show this. Hope that makes sense!

 

[AlterEgo]

"They use, rubber guns, airsoft guns, purpose built blank firing, modified real guns with blanks etc."

Blanks are not harmless either, when I worked at the BBC , the armorer fired a blank into his hand at close range by accident, he was off work for weeks and was extremely lucky to get full function back in his hand.

There should never have been any live rounds at all on a film set at all.

Indeed. Suggesting the armourer should just suffer no consequences because "accidents happen" is a bit mad. The armourer's job is to ensure that accidents like this cannot happen, and requires exemplary trust placed in you.

 

[MotCO]

To be honest she shouldn't have been jailed either, IMV. It should have been accepted as a blameless tragedy, and the desired effect of much stricter regulation on film sets would have occurred in any case without having to jail anyone.

But how did a live bullet get loaded in the gun? Presumably it is the armorer's responsibility to only procur blank bullets and check what was loaded into the gun. Unless someone deliberately swapped the bullets, surely the blame of this incident rests with the armorer. Whilst harsh on the armorer, presumably it was harsher on the relatives on the deceased.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Complete review and improvement and implementation of safety policy on any Hollywood film production now needed.

 

[spyinthesky]

But how did a live bullet get loaded in the gun? Presumably it is the armorer's responsibility to only procur blank bullets and check what was loaded into the gun. Unless someone deliberately swapped the bullets, surely the blame of this incident rests with the armorer. Whilst harsh on the armorer, presumably it was harsher on the relatives on the deceased.

Exactly.
I cannot believe the ineptitude of crime scene investigation in the US and the preservation there of.
The armourer who had the responsibility given to them must have had some idea of firearm safety and followed some very basic principles.
1. Live ammunition may only be used on a licensed firing range (Maybe to familiarise those that are going to be using them on set)

2. If blank ammunition is to be used then range safety guidelines must be upheld.

3. All those who are ‘Users’ must be trained in Basic firearm principles.

4. All weapons must be checked and cleared before being handed over to user and on subsequent return.

 

[Trackman]

"They use, rubber guns, airsoft guns, purpose built blank firing, modified real guns with blanks etc."

Blanks are not harmless either, when I worked at the BBC , the armorer fired a blank into his hand at close range by accident, he was off work for weeks and was extremely lucky to get full function back in his hand.

There should never have been any live rounds at all on a film set at all.

Brandon Lee was killed by blank on set a few years ago. I think a fragment of a bullet was in the chamber or something.

Complete review and improvement and implementation of safety policy on any Hollywood film production now needed.

Indeed.
As the ball already started rolling yet?