Alcohol and bus drivers

[Busaholic]

I'd be interested to know what regulations exist for bus drivers who regularly drink alcohol between shifts. My interest stems from seeing a full-time driver working for one of the national companies in a local pub virtually every evening, drinking beer from a half-pint glass. As I'm not in the pub myself (he is always fully visible at the bar through the window, in a narrow street which I walk down) I can't say whether he restricts himself to just one half pint or not: I don't believe he ever works an evening shift, but he'll be driving the following morning on most days. He seems to stay until closing time (11.20ish). Is he staying within the regs if he drinks a half pint per day, both national ones and the ones pertaining to his company? I'd rather not identify his employer, so would like to read of different companies' attitudes to this.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd be interested to know what regulations exist for bus drivers who regularly drink alcohol between shifts. My interest stems from seeing a full-time driver working for one of the national companies in a local pub virtually every evening, drinking beer from a half-pint glass. As I'm not in the pub myself (he is always fully visible at the bar through the window, in a narrow street which I walk down) I can't say whether he restricts himself to just one half pint or not: I don't believe he ever works an evening shift, but he'll be driving the following morning on most days. He seems to stay until closing time (11.20ish). Is he staying within the regs if he drinks a half pint per day, both national ones and the ones pertaining to his company? I'd rather not identify his employer, so would like to read of different companies' attitudes to this.

If the driver is out of work, he/she is free to dispose of his/her time as they wish. Employers usually specify that you cannot do so in uniform.

Whilst on duty, the same rule precludes them from entering any licensed premises. Before mobile phones, the only exemption was to use a pub phone to ring through a breakdown.

Of course, at all times, drivers must adhere to drink drive rules and I've known drivers be sent home if they even smell of alcohol, irrespective of any test being performed.

However, if your driver is enjoying 3 halves, finishes drinking at 11.30 but is not due on shift till 0700, then they should be ok to drive. Depends what/how much they drink. The rough rule is one hour per unit (half a pint) to expel that from your system after your final drink.

 

[455driver]

If you are so concerned why dont you take a picture of this bloke in the pub, send it into his employer and see what happens!

Whats the law on stalking again?

 

[Busaholic]

If you are so concerned why dont you take a picture of this bloke in the pub, send it into his employer and see what happens!

Whats the law on stalking again?

What over-reaction! I'm not suggesting he's doing anything illegal or immoral, just interested to know what the position is. Actually, he seems to spend half his time outside the door smoking. My 'interest' was piqued by the tests shown being given to East Yorkshire drivers in the recent TV series with 100% nil readings: nothing was said about what if there had been any trace of alcohol.

 

[455driver]

As long as he turns up for work in a fit state then it is bugger all to do with you what he does on his own time.

If you ever find yourself on a bus and you consider the driver unfit (for whatever reason) then phone the Police so they can stop the bus and do the necessary.
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nothing was said about what if there had been any trace of alcohol.

As long as they are under the drink drive limit then they would be allowed to drive, if they kept turning up for work close to the limit then a quiet word would be had.

I havent seen that bus program but all the time I was a bus driver (quite a few years ago now) I was never given a random test and on a Saturday or Sunday morning the depot used to smell like a stale brewery with a lot of red eyed drivers. I would say that there is a lot of 'playing to the audience' going on with the program!

 

[90019]

As long as he turns up for work in a fit state then it is bugger all to do with you what he does on his own time.

If you ever find yourself on a bus and you consider the driver unfit (for whatever reason) then phone the Police so they can stop the bus and do the necessary.

I know of a driver in Edinburgh a few years ago who got pulled off the bus mid route and taken back to the depot for a drugs test after a passenger called in and complained that he was being too happy, because he was singing away to himself in the cab as he was driving up the road.

 

[455driver]

I know of a driver in Edinburgh a few years ago who got pulled off the bus mid route and taken back to the depot for a drugs test after a passenger called in and complained that he was being too happy, because he was singing away to himself in the cab as he was driving up the road.

Being happy in your work is still classed as gross misconduct I see!

 

[Bwsbro]

Being happy in your work is still classed as gross misconduct I see!

It is in Edinburgh

 

[Titfield]

Some employers set their own limit (below the statutory limit and carry out both random and "on reasonable suspicion" tests using their own calibrated equipment.

If the reading is above the set limit then the member of staff would be subject to a laid down procedure.

 

[starrymarkb]

National Express Drivers have to pass a breath test every time they board a coach. The engine will not start unless the test is passed.

 

[Busaholic]

National Express Drivers have to pass a breath test every time they board a coach. The engine will not start unless the test is passed.

This probably the result of a crash involving a Nat Ex coach in 2007 which resulted in many injuries - the driver had been drinking all night before driving his coach. He received a 10 month sentence, which many would consider very lenient considering the number of arm and leg amputations that he caused, including to young children.

 

[RPM]

Is he staying within the regs if he drinks a half pint per day, both national ones and the ones pertaining to his company? I'd rather not identify his employer, so would like to read of different companies' attitudes to this.

Is that a serious question? Unless he's drinking barley wine then he could drink half a pint immediately before his shift starts and he'd still be well under the national limit! Specific company rules may differ though. He'd be well under the national guidelines on healthy drinking too!

Obviously he'd be daft to do it, and he might be sent home for smelling of booze, but he'd pass any blood alcohol test. Different story if he was a train driver mind...

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Although drinking by any driver is to be frowned upon you will find that more accidents among professional drivers are caused by tiredness and lack of sleep yet it is not something that appears to be tackled with as much vigour as drink driving. Can you remember the last time a bus or coach crash was the reuslt of the driver being drunk or even having had one drink as opposed to it being down to fatigue ?

 

[Titfield]

you will find that more accidents among professional drivers are caused by tiredness and lack of sleep yet it is not something that appears to be tackled with as much vigour as drink driving.

I am interested in this statement. What is the factual source for this assertion?

 

[455driver]

I am interested in this statement. What is the factual source for this assertion?

I do believe he is correct, tiredness and boredom among professional (road) drivers is a well known problem.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I am interested in this statement. What is the factual source for this assertion?

It takes a minute or two to find a report of a coach crash where driver fatigue played a part

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...rash-driver-admits-he-may-have-dozed-off.html

I am still looking for one where alcohol played a part.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...o_work_drunk_and_carrying_a_bottle_of_whisky/ closest I've got after about 10 minutes

 

[richw]

It takes a minute or two to find a report of a coach crash where driver fatigue played a part

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...rash-driver-admits-he-may-have-dozed-off.html

I am still looking for one where alcohol played a part.

There was a well publicised accident about 5-6 years ago involving a national express driver who crashed whilst over the drink drive limit. As a result all natex coaches now have a breathalyser drivers need to take before they are able to start the engine.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/7471141.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8508701.stm

 

[Mutant Lemming]

There was a well publicised accident about 5-6 years ago involving a national express driver who crashed whilst over the drink drive limit. As a result all natex coaches now have a breathalyser drivers need to take before they are able to start the engine.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/7471141.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8508701.stm

Looking through reports if coach crashes it appears that many more are a result of driver fatigue. Admittedly not very scientific just a perusal of the causes of recent coach crashes. Maybe someone knows where there is a more thorough way of making the comparisons.

 

[90019]

I do believe he is correct, tiredness and boredom among professional (road) drivers is a well known problem.

My experience agrees with this.

 

[Amberley54]

I do believe he is correct, tiredness and boredom among professional (road) drivers is a well known problem.

Yes indeed, and there is ample academic research on the impact of driver fatigue, and regrettably several Coronor's reports over the years to back this up.

This is why there are clear regulations on driving hours, rest breaks etc. that determine shift patterns for service bus drivers and the tachograph for long distance/coach drivers.

I understand that mis-use/disabling of the tachograph may be a criminal offence as well as gross misconduct.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes indeed, and there is ample academic research on the impact of driver fatigue, and regrettably several Coronor's reports over the years to back this up.

This is why there are clear regulations on driving hours, rest breaks etc. that determine shift patterns for service bus drivers and the tachograph for long distance/coach drivers.

I understand that mis-use/disabling of the tachograph may be a criminal offence as well as gross misconduct.

It most definitely is. I've also sacked a driver who was driving 5 days for me, and on his rest days, was driving elsewhere. He was also prosecuted by the ministry.

Whilst drivers are free to dispose of their free time as they wish, they are constrained by drivers hours regs to ensure that fatigue is minimised.

 

[driver9000]

I havent seen that bus program but all the time I was a bus driver (quite a few years ago now) I was never given a random test and on a Saturday or Sunday morning the depot used to smell like a stale brewery with a lot of red eyed drivers. I would say that there is a lot of 'playing to the audience' going on with the program!

The company I drove for loved giving "random" breath tests to Drivers. I lost count of the number of times my number was "randomly selected". Despite this I know of a few who lost their jobs because they attempted to book on over the limit. Very much a minority and still a rare event though.