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Airport drop off charges

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ExRes

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I'm sure this subject must have been discussed before but in my dotage I don't seem to be able to find a thread

I dropped my daughter off at Gatwick North Terminal this morning, arrival time 0718, departure time 0720, charge £7, I consider this charge to be nothing more than legalised theft, what possible reason can they have to justify an outrageous charge like this?
 
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I'm sure this subject must have been discussed before but in my dotage I don't seem to be able to find a thread

I dropped my daughter off at Gatwick North Terminal this morning, arrival time 0718, departure time 0720, charge £7, I consider this charge to be nothing more than legalised theft, what possible reason can they have to justify an outrageous charge like this?
Because they can...they are a private company. No different to a private car park anywhere that might charge £XX for up to Y hours. Of you choose to stay for just 5 minutes or right up to the Y hours you pay the same.

Most airports (inc LGW) still have a free drop-off area and it's in the long-term car park at each terminal where I believe you get 15 (might be 30) minutes. The person(s) you are dropping off simply has to then catch the free shuttle bus to the terminal which runs about every 7-10 minutes.
 

jfollows

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It’s not enforceable if you don’t pay and don’t identify the driver, appeal as registered keeper only
Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ______) for vehicle registration mark _______, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I am appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle. There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act").

Even if you were seeking to do so, as the Gatwick Airport South Terminal Drop Off Zone is not "relevant land" as defined by The Act you are unable to recover the charge from me, the keeper.

I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,
Too late for you I know.

Essentially the legislation to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known registered keeper can not be invoked on land governed by bylaws such as airport and railway land.

NCP (and APCOA at other airports) usually cancel on receipt of this appeal.

Unlike most private car parks where liability can be transferred provided the details of the legislation are complied with.

The only legal sanction for breaching bylaws is in the name - it’s a criminal offence tried in the magistrates courts and any fine goes to the state, not to NCP.

Of course, you probably won’t think it’s worth saving £7 because of the hassle. But if it were a lot less it’d definitely be easier just to pay.
 
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py_megapixel

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Access to drop off directly in front of the terminal is a convenience/comfort service that comes at an additional charge. I don't have a problem with that and I don't see how it's any different to charging for, say, premium lounge access or fast lane security.

If you would rather not pay the charge for that service you don't have to make use of it. Passengers can also be dropped off (free of charge) in the long stay car park, from where a shuttle bus is available to the terminal - or of course you could arrange to arrive at the airport by public transport.
 

Ted633

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Or drop them off at the Shell petrol station just off the North Terminal roundabout. Only 2 minute walk from there
 

deltic

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I'm sure this subject must have been discussed before but in my dotage I don't seem to be able to find a thread

I dropped my daughter off at Gatwick North Terminal this morning, arrival time 0718, departure time 0720, charge £7, I consider this charge to be nothing more than legalised theft, what possible reason can they have to justify an outrageous charge like this?
Its to keep airport landing charges low so airlines can offer lower fares which means more people fly and the airport makes more money. Airports are in competition for airlines not passengers.
 

GoneSouth

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Access to drop off directly in front of the terminal is a convenience/comfort service that comes at an additional charge. I don't have a problem with that and I don't see how it's any different to charging for, say, premium lounge access or fast lane security.

If you would rather not pay the charge for that service you don't have to make use of it. Passengers can also be dropped off (free of charge) in the long stay car park, from where a shuttle bus is available to the terminal - or of course you could arrange to arrive at the airport by public transport.
But in the case of Gatwick it’s enforced for use of the Rail station too which is my real annoyance. Even if you don’t use the airport you have to pay to pick up/drop off at the station. Disgraceful. And what makes it even worse is the thugs they employ to intimidate you whilst you’re using your £7 worth of pick up time. Despicable behaviours Gatwick.

I didn’t realise it had gone up to £7, it was £5 when first introduced. No doubt £10 within a year, just creaming us for every penny because budget airlines want to keep their non transparent fares low.
 

Bishopstone

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But in the case of Gatwick it’s enforced for use of the Rail station too which is my real annoyance. Even if you don’t use the airport you have to pay to pick up/drop off at the station. Disgraceful. And what makes it even worse is the thugs they employ to intimidate you whilst you’re using your £7 worth of pick up time. Despicable behaviours Gatwick.

If you just want the railway, you can drop-off for free at Horley station, less than a mile up the line. Or there are residential streets in Horley that give pedestrian access to Gatwick within ten minutes walk - barely longer than the walk from the official drop-off at the airport.
 

GoneSouth

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If you just want the railway, you can drop-off for free at Horley station, less than a mile up the line. Or there are residential streets in Horley that give pedestrian access to Gatwick within ten minutes walk - barely longer than the walk from the official drop-off at the airport.
yeah depending on final destination we’ve taken to joining/leaving the railway elsewhere. Didn’t realise you could walk easily from streets in Horley though. It does usually involve an extra change and you have to be careful with split ticketing or you end up paying much more than the drop off fee In increased ticket costs!

On balance, it’s not even the costs that made us do this, it’s the thugs they employ who are horrible
 

Mojo

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To be honest, I don’t think it’s that unreasonable when you consider that airports usually offer some sort of free drop off, either officially advertised, in the case of Gatwick with the longstay carpark, or unofficial.
 

Mcr Warrior

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If you just want the railway, you can drop-off for free at Horley station, less than a mile up the line.
Single fare from Horley to Gatwick Airport is just £2.50, and 40p less by contactless. Having said that, the 0720 train from Horley this morning ran some 20 minutes down, so not ideal depending on when exactly check-in at Gatwick North Terminal was.
 

Buzby

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when you consider that airports usually offer some sort of free drop off,
Not up here! PIK (Prestwick) have this sewn up. Leave the A77 airport roundabout and it is barriered to enter further. Outside there is a bus stop\layby, the council has signs warning buses only - but should you think 20 seconds won’t matter and there are no wardens, don’t be surprised if/when a police car pulls in behind you for a ‘word’. They sit 100 yards before the stop in a service road used by tankers for refuelling, and will be with you before a door opens. You then get a FPN. It is DYL all the way to Prestwick town.

At Glasgow, even the on-site petrol station warns cars and taxis cannot use it for drop-off or uplift (to avoid the taxi premium due to the airport). It’s quite a scam!
 

Recessio

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Or drop them off at the Shell petrol station just off the North Terminal roundabout. Only 2 minute walk from there
Not the best walking route having to cross all those roads though, especially with luggage.
 

camflyer

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Not the best walking route having to cross all those roads though, especially with luggage.

I regularly stay at the Premier Inn next to the Shell petrol station (it's usually cheaper than the bigger opposite the North Terminal) and it's an easy well signposted walk.
 

FinsburyPark

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Also the short stay car park can be used. On an unofficial basis.

I went through as i coudnt get a space in north terminal car park 5 and was told to leave via the barriers and use car park 4 or 6 (cant remember which. I said yeah ok but i dont wish to be charged.

Agent said if you leave within 20 mins of entering then its no charge.

Obviously this is unofficial and if they see you are 'taking the biscuit' they could tighten up the rules.

But if you actually go in the car park as though your parking up, then leace within this 20 min window, it could work as an unofficial loophole.

At one of the terminals the short stay is right next to drop off area, so don't stop in the access/exit road because

1) You may block the road for people actually intending to reach the car parks.

2) You want to seem as inconspicous as possible. Stopping in the entry and exit road basically means you could be identified as someone whos 'taking the biscuit'.

And now you know
 

jon81uk

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Also the short stay car park can be used. On an unofficial basis.

I went through as i coudnt get a space in north terminal car park 5 and was told to leave via the barriers and use car park 4 or 6 (cant remember which. I said yeah ok but i dont wish to be charged.

Agent said if you leave within 20 mins of entering then its no charge.

Obviously this is unofficial and if they see you are 'taking the biscuit' they could tighten up the rules.

But if you actually go in the car park as though your parking up, then leace within this 20 min window, it could work as an unofficial loophole.

At one of the terminals the short stay is right next to drop off area, so don't stop in the access/exit road because

1) You may block the road for people actually intending to reach the car parks.

2) You want to seem as inconspicous as possible. Stopping in the entry and exit road basically means you could be identified as someone whos 'taking the biscuit'.

And now you know

Not sure this is true, the charges on the website show £7 for up to 30 minutes of short stay parking (including using it for drop-off) https://www.gatwickairport.com/parking/roll-up-car-park-prices.html
 

FinsburyPark

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Not sure this is true, the charges on the website show £7 for up to 30 minutes of short stay parking (including using it for drop-off) https://www.gatwickairport.com/parking/roll-up-car-park-prices.html
Looks like this 'loophole' has been closed.

That does bring other questions though.......

For people who use it as a car park and not a drop off. What happens in the same scenario with new rules?

There are signs everywhere saying you cannot reverse.

Each of the terminals short stay car parks have 3-4 multi storey car parks. Everything is great until blue car park is at capacity and you are asked to leave and come back in and try red car park or green car park instead.

Previously a genuine user who was re routed due to car park x bieng full would not be charged.

What happens now the rules have changed?
 

mpthomson

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It’s not enforceable if you don’t pay and don’t identify the driver, appeal as registered keeper only

Too late for you I know.

Essentially the legislation to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known registered keeper can not be invoked on land governed by bylaws such as airport and railway land.

NCP (and APCOA at other airports) usually cancel on receipt of this appeal.

Unlike most private car parks where liability can be transferred provided the details of the legislation are complied with.

The only legal sanction for breaching bylaws is in the name - it’s a criminal offence tried in the magistrates courts and any fine goes to the state, not to NCP.

Of course, you probably won’t think it’s worth saving £7 because of the hassle. But if it were a lot less it’d definitely be easier just to pay.
It's a contractual charge on private land and is enforceable in exactly the same way as any other contractual charge. At Gatwick the T&Cs for use of parking are not contained within the byelaws so parking is a commercially governed thing. If you enter the zone you're liable to pay the charge unless in limited circumstances which don't appear to apply here (poor signage etc). If you don't pay you'll get issued a PCN which is enforceable in the the same way that any other PCN at any other car park on private land.

Quoting inaccurate legalese at them isn't going to get you off a PCN in this instance.
 

Mojo

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It's a contractual charge on private land and is enforceable in exactly the same way as any other contractual charge. At Gatwick the T&Cs for use of parking are not contained within the byelaws so parking is a commercially governed thing. If you enter the zone you're liable to pay the charge unless in limited circumstances which don't appear to apply here (poor signage etc). If you don't pay you'll get issued a PCN which is enforceable in the the same way that any other PCN at any other car park on private land.

Quoting inaccurate legalese at them isn't going to get you off a PCN in this instance.
I can confirm it does, and there is nothing inaccurate in the advice from the poster you have quoted. The driver of a vehicle which I have access to forgot to pay the drop off fee at an airport last year and despite them contacting the operator prior to the PCN being issued, was told it was too late and the PCN was issued. The registered keeper wrote a similar (but less rude) email to the parking scheme operator and the ticket was written off.


In effect, when wheel clamping vehicles on private land was made illegal in England in 2012, the government changed the law to make it easier for private parking companies to recover unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper where they cannot identify the driver. However this law cannot be used on land which has statutory parking controls. As many airports have byelaws which amongst other things, criminalise certain type of parking offences, they thus cannot rely on this law. Despite your assertion, Gatwick is no exception, with sections 5 and 6 of the byelaws criminalising various motor vehicle actions.

You are correct in that it is not a sure fire way to avoid paying given the driver of the vehicle still remains liable, but given these companies don’t readily have the wherewithal to carry out investigations into who the driver was, they will just write the ticket off.
 
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mpthomson

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I can confirm it does, and there is nothing inaccurate in the advice from the poster you have quoted. The driver of a vehicle which I have access to forgot to pay the drop off fee at an airport last year and despite them contacting the operator prior to the PCN being issued, was told it was too late and the PCN was issued. The registered keeper wrote a similar (but less rude) email to the parking scheme operator and the ticket was written off.


In effect, when wheel clamping vehicles on private land was made illegal in England in 2012, the government changed the law to make it easier for private parking companies to recover unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper where they cannot identify the driver. However this law cannot be used on land which has statutory parking controls. As many airports have byelaws which amongst other things, criminalise certain type of parking offences, they thus cannot rely on this law. Despite your assertion, Gatwick is no exception, with sections 5 and 6 of the byelaws criminalising various motor vehicle actions.

You are correct in that it is not a sure fire way to avoid paying given the driver of the vehicle still remains liable, but given these companies don’t readily have the wherewithal to carry out investigations into who the driver was, they will just write the ticket off.
I'm aware of the law, thanks. In relation to Gatwick there is nothing whatever relating to offences around the drop off zones or parking in the car parks contained in either Byelaw 5 or 6 other than 6.3, a short paragraph stating that you can only park in car parks (summarised). It's just possible that they'd considered this scenario. What happened at another airport is immaterial.
 

Mojo

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I'm aware of the law, thanks. In relation to Gatwick there is nothing whatever relating to offences around the drop off zones or parking in the car parks contained in either Byelaw 5 or 6 other than 6.3, a short paragraph stating that you can only park in car parks (summarised). It's just possible that they'd considered this scenario. What happened at another airport is immaterial.
There are dozens of examples on various websites, including Reddit and MSE, of people having penalties scrapped at Gatwick Airport when the registered keeper declines to disclose the driver. I am not sure how you can assert that the North terminal drop off zone is relevant land.
 
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mpthomson

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There are dozens of examples on various websites, including Reddit and MSE, of people having penalties scrapped at Gatwick Airport when the registered keeper declines to disclose the driver. I am not sure how you can assert that the North terminal drop off zone is relevant land.
That’s nice. Doesn’t alter the actual legal position, it just means that Gatwick has chosen not to pursue some people. What we don’t know is how many people have been successfully (and lawfully) issued a PCN for non-payment of a drop zone fee.

The legal position is exactly what I said it was. There is no mention of any drop off zones (or any other specific parking zone) in the bye-laws. Hence they’re covered under the standard legislation as related to parking on private land. It’s not as if they won’t have thought about this…
 

CyrusWuff

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The legal position is exactly what I said it was. There is no mention of any drop off zones (or any other specific parking zone) in the bye-laws. Hence they’re covered under the standard legislation as related to parking on private land. It’s not as if they won’t have thought about this…
The legal position is that Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (which relates to recovery of unpaid parking charges) does not apply to "any land on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control."

Given Gatwick (and other airports) is subject to byelaws, it follows that PoFA does not apply and any "Parking Charge Notices" that are issued are inherently invalid. Rather the Airport Operator has to take the Driver to Magistrates Court to pursue an alleged Byelaw offence. However, there is also no requirement for the Registered Keeper to identify the Driver.
 

125Spotter

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Nor across here at Glasgow - £6 drop off/pick up charge!
It’s not very well advertised (for obvious reasons!) but they have a ‘free’ one hour drop off facility as part of the long stay car park, whereby users of the facility must take the shuttle bus into the terminal:

Free Drop Off Option

If close proximity to the airport isn’t essential, our free Long Stay pick-up option could be more suited to your needs.

Pull into our Long-stay car park and you can leave your car here free of charge for up to 1 hour. You can either wait here for your passenger or you can hop on the free shuttle bus to meet them at the terminal.

Source: https://www.glasgowairport.com/at-the-airport/airport-services/parking/long-stay/

Hope it saves you some cash!
 

mpthomson

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The legal position is that Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (which relates to recovery of unpaid parking charges) does not apply to "any land on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control."

Given Gatwick (and other airports) is subject to byelaws, it follows that PoFA does not apply and any "Parking Charge Notices" that are issued are inherently invalid. Rather the Airport Operator has to take the Driver to Magistrates Court to pursue an alleged Byelaw offence. However, there is also no requirement for the Registered Keeper to identify the Driver.
No, that doesn't follow at all. Only if there are byelaws in place that cover that activity, otherwise standard legal provisions apply. There are NO byelaws at Gatwick which relate to parking payment or drop off, so there are no byelaw offences applicable. As I've said before, it's not as if the airport won't have considered this.
 

greatkingrat

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No, that doesn't follow at all. Only if there are byelaws in place that cover that activity, otherwise standard legal provisions apply. There are NO byelaws at Gatwick which relate to parking payment or drop off, so there are no byelaw offences applicable. As I've said before, it's not as if the airport won't have considered this.
5(3) Obstruction
Except in an emergency, no person shall leave or park a Vehicle or cause it to wait for a period in excess of the permitted time in an area where the period of waiting is restricted by a Sign.

6(3) Parking
No person shall leave any cargo or baggage or park any Vehicle or equipment elsewhere than in a place provided by the Airport Company for the accommodation of such cargo or baggage or the parking of such Vehicle or equipment.

One or both of these seems to cover it.
 

CyrusWuff

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No, that doesn't follow at all. Only if there are byelaws in place that cover that activity, otherwise standard legal provisions apply. There are NO byelaws at Gatwick which relate to parking payment or drop off, so there are no byelaw offences applicable. As I've said before, it's not as if the airport won't have considered this.
The Byelaws were last revised in December 1996, prior to Gatwick introducing the charges for use of the drop off zone.

The PoFA exemption is a binary one: If Byelaws apply (which they do to the whole Airport site), PoFA doesn't.

Multiple threads on other sites show that speculative invoices (aka Parking Charge Notices) are always cancelled when challenged on that basis.
 

mpthomson

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The Byelaws were last revised in December 1996, prior to Gatwick introducing the charges for use of the drop off zone.

The PoFA exemption is a binary one: If Byelaws apply (which they do to the whole Airport site), PoFA doesn't.

Multiple threads on other sites show that speculative invoices (aka Parking Charge Notices) are always cancelled when challenged on that basis.
So we're clear that there's no current byelaw that relates to the use of the dropoff, it doesn't matter when they were revised. Gatwick's byelaws are actually very brief and there's a boatload of common scenarios across a huge range of areas covered under other law that aren't covered in them. And no, they aren't ALWAYS cancelled at all, you'd need to provide the number issued and number successfully appealed to back up that claim.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

5(3) Obstruction
Except in an emergency, no person shall leave or park a Vehicle or cause it to wait for a period in excess of the permitted time in an area where the period of waiting is restricted by a Sign.

6(3) Parking
No person shall leave any cargo or baggage or park any Vehicle or equipment elsewhere than in a place provided by the Airport Company for the accommodation of such cargo or baggage or the parking of such Vehicle or equipment.

One or both of these seems to cover it.
Neither covers it. The issue is the drop off charge not being paid when using the drop off zone correctly, not what happens if you enter it for longer than the allotted time (5.3) or park somewhere other than a car park (6.3).
 
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