Airdrie-Bathgate service

[MidnightFlyer]

I applied and it was refused
Therefore need to wait until the full publication in two weeks time (or 13 days)

Ah, not too long at least - what website?

 

[p.d87]

Apparently Garrowhill and Blairhouse have similar passenger numbers, so why all this 'it must stop at Blairhouse'? It just down the road from CBS*, so why not just go to/park there, if they are that desperate for the train? I'm oging to get done over for this post

* = Coatbridge Sunnyside

Could you tell me where Blairhouse is and the current service level that runs there? I wasn't saying it must stop there, I was just backing up another posters comment as it was my local station too and I am familiar with passenger flow. People on this can be so arrogant at times.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Could you tell me where Blairhouse is and the current service level that runs there? I wasn't saying it must stop there, I was just backing up another posters comment as it was my local station too and I am familiar with passenger flow. People on this can be so arrogant at times.

First station west of CBS, 4 tph m-Sat directionally, 2 on Suns.

It's not called arrogance - it's called passion

 

[p.d87]

First station west of CBS, 4 tph m-Sat directionally, 2 on Suns.

It's not called arrogance - it's called passion

I believe that is Blairhill. I've only used that station for 23 years Clearly not passionate enough not to know the correct name of the station in question.

 

[CarterUSM]

Blairhouse sounds so much better though, Blairhill is usually spoken with the inevitable glottal stop at the end!

 

[me123]

With Blairhill being my local station I am a little confused as to what to expect from the new timetable. I thought that we would see a 15 min frequency through to Edinburgh. I can understand why 2 of the 3 new stations are getting a 30 min service each way as they are relatively small but Blairhill and Coatdyke both serve a large area of commuters and for them to only recieve a half hourly service to West Lothian and the Capital would not in my mind "make the A2B beneficial to the people of North Lanarkshire and West Lothian" as the website promotes.

Your feeling sums up that of locals in Airdrie and Coatbridge. We were promised and are expecting 4tph to Edinburgh. And if some stations are selected over others when it comes to delivery, I don't think that the public will be very happy to be honest.

Blairhill in particular is in a relatively affluent area in Coatbridge, with lots of commuters in all directions. It's one of the areas of the town that's grown because of the commuter demand. And I know that the Airdrie-Bathgate project has stimulated more growth in Blairhill than it has elsewhere. A number of new house building projects were built to take advantage of the new train line.

I think many people will be peeved if we don't get 4tph to Edinburgh as promised.

One thing I've always thought, though, is that the 2tph may be supplemented by changing at Sunnyside if the timetable permits. If it's similar to just now, Blairhill would see a service at xx:01/xx:31 to Airdrie. This would connect with the xx:08/xx;38 at Sunnside (and vice versa) giving a realistic 4tph with an extremely easy change.

(Another thing I'll say is that, often, the Eastbound express service can "catch up" with the next local and be slowed down/stopped altogether at Shettleston and/or Easterhouse. If the current timetable is going to be maintained, I imagine that the trains would be crawling past Blairhill anyway on approach to the next signal, so I honestly can't see why the services can't stop here throughout the day).

One ray of hope may be the Rt Hon. Tom Clarke MP. He lives on Blair Road, so I'd imagine that he'd be one to use the service. Whilst he has no control over this, perhaps he could sway things...

 

[tbtc]

I think many people will be peeved if we don't get 4tph to Edinburgh as promised

Its still the same service that Dundee/ Dunfermline/ Stirling etc get (and better than most stations in Scotland, including places like Perth/ Aberdeen/ most towns in East Lothian)

Am sure if all these affluent commuters use the service to Edinburgh then more trains will stop there

 

[me123]

The other benefit in this service stopping, however, is that we then have 6tph to and from Glasgow. That may sound like a lot, but the busy North Clyde Line plus the new commuters from Bathgate and beyond (potentially a substantial number) will potentially add strain to the services.

Stopping the fast trains at Blairhill will help ensure that the Airdrie-Balloch(?) local continues to have enough capacity for people further down the line, in particular at Garrowhill and Shettleston.

 

[CarterUSM]

I'm not so sure it is reasonable to be peeved off at not getting 4 services an hour to EDB, 2 is excellent as it is, and as i said, i don't really think there is the demand for it just now anyway, though there may be in the future. There could be pathing issues with it also at the eastern end. I'm actually unsure whether the line will be the success it has been so long touted to be, but w'll see what the numbers are like in due course.

 

[John @ home]

Could you tell me where Blairhouse is

I think it's a station which has been renamed to promote the publication of a former prime minister's memoirs today. Normal station names will resume tomorrow.

 

[Nightrider]

With Blairhill being my local station I am a little confused as to what to expect from the new timetable. I thought that we would see a 15 min frequency through to Edinburgh. I can understand why 2 of the 3 new stations are getting a 30 min service each way as they are relatively small but Blairhill and Coatdyke both serve a large area of commuters and for them to only recieve a half hourly service to West Lothian and the Capital would not in my mind "make the A2B beneficial to the people of North Lanarkshire and West Lothian" as the website promotes.

Looks on the bright side.

A2B must put a few quid on the Blairhill house prices.

 

[me123]

Looks on the bright side.

A2B must put a few quid on the Blairhill house prices.

But, with houses being sold with the promise of 4tph in the near future, will it actually cause a fall in house prices?
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I'm not so sure it is reasonable to be peeved off at not getting 4 services an hour to EDB, 2 is excellent as it is, and as i said, i don't really think there is the demand for it just now anyway, though there may be in the future. There could be pathing issues with it also at the eastern end. I'm actually unsure whether the line will be the success it has been so long touted to be, but w'll see what the numbers are like in due course.

It's not just the 4tph to Edinburgh, though. It's also the extra services to and from Glasgow that will be passing through a busy and well used station without stopping! (And will probably be stopping at the signal just past the station anyway).

Besides, 11minutes into Glasgow city centre throughout the day would even beat the motorway off peak. You'd see hundreds of additional passengers as I result without a doubt.

And I also think you'll pick up just as many passengers at Blairhill as you would at Sunnyside. In fact, probably more passengers. There's definitely reason to stop at both stations. Probably not as much for Coatdyke, but I'd like to see it get the service as well.

 

[68000]

Expecting 4tph Blairhill to Edinburgh is just being greedy. 2tph is pretty good actually.

 

[Nightrider]

Lets be honest there,s a big element of truth in what posters are saying about stopping trains travelling to Edinburgh at Blairhill.
There,s a lot of middle class housing surrounding the station.
These are the very people who are more likely to travel 35 miles to Edinburgh on a daily basis for work reasons.
There,s two choices at present to reach Edinburgh by rail for Blairhill people, either travel back into Glasgow or go to Bellshill and catch the Edinburgh via Shotts train there.
A2B might well let the rest of us get a seat on the Glasgow/Edinburgh via Falkirk train.

 

[me123]

Expecting 4tph Blairhill to Edinburgh is just being greedy. 2tph is pretty good actually.

I'm not saying that 2tph isn't good. It is. In fact, 4tph through Airdrie and Bathgate was more than I was expecting. I'm just arguing that a train which is going to run through the station non-stop (probably very slowly, before getting stopped at the next signal behind the slow train anyway) would be as well stopping to pick up the additional passengers that will use the service.

But, with local knowledge , I'm arguing that it makes sense to stop all trains at Blairhill and Sunnyside. I know that the trains will be well used. Indeed, I imagine that more people will use Blairhill than Sunnyside based on where the housing is. Blairhill itself is one of the more affluent parts of Coatbridge, and I would argue that it would likely see more people going through to the capital than Sunnyside. I actually know plenty of people who drive up to Croy to catch the train there, and many people who choose to drive all the way to Edinburgh.

The potential at Blairhill is just as much as that at Sunnyside and Airdrie. It makes sense for the train to call here, as it will also boost services into and from Glasgow. As I've said before, 11 minutes to Queen Street beats the Motorway at any time of the day and you'd see a huge shift onto the train.

You could also argue the same for the (slightly less busy) Coatdyke, which is conveniently located for Monklands Hospital, and in a large residential area.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There,s two choices at present to reach Edinburgh by rail for Blairhill people, either travel back into Glasgow or go to Bellshill and catch the Edinburgh via Shotts train there.
A2B might well let the rest of us get a seat on the Glasgow/Edinburgh via Falkirk train.

Most people, is I've said above, actually drive to Edinburgh or Croy.

One of the benefits will be a significant shift onto the North Clyde Lines (which leads me to hope that the timetable allows for huge growth on the already busy line). Livingston North, Bathgate and Edinburgh Park stations will undoubtedly be well used for commuting to Glasgow and Edinburgh, and indeed will help bring commuters to those towns as well. I know a few people who plan to commuter to Livingston and I'm sure there's a huge demand for travelling to Edinburgh Park (as there have been frequent requests for Scotrail to stop trains there). And I'm pretty sure that Armadale will get 4tph in the not-too-distant future as well. The journeys will be fast enough to push Partick and Milngavie-branch passengers onto the new line rather than risking a change at Queen Street.

There's no doubt that the pressure on the existing Edinburgh-Glasgow services will be relieved slightly when the new route opens.

 

[Scotrail84]

4 tph too many, one train fails and then its a backlog and hundreds of minutes of delays that you will just moan about anyway, plus how many train per hour are you going to use?? All of them?

 

[p.d87]

me123 unfortunately our local knowledge of the area and station doesnt seem to be counting for much. I am pretty certain that there would be more users from Blairhill than Sunnyside using the link not just to Edinburgh but also to West Lothian. I know plenty of people in my area who use Livingston shopping centre at the weekend who normally drive through but would prefer to use the train. A fifteeen minute frequency is more appealing to people than half-hourly as its a case of turn up and go rather than just missing a train and having to wait 30 mins for the next direct one and before anyone jumps down my throat I know they can get the next train and change but then doing that loses the appeal of leaving the car behind especially after a days shopping. I also dont see how Sunnyside car park would cope with the sudden influx of park and ride passengers from Blairhill taking up spaces due to the fact the service at Sunnyside is better.

 

[A60K]

4 tph too many, one train fails and then its a backlog and hundreds of minutes of delays that you will just moan about anyway, plus how many train per hour are you going to use?? All of them?

Eh? Are you suggesting that 4tph services should be reduced to 3tph or less just in case a train fails? Try telling that to London Underground or the RATP

 

[tbtc]

I actually know plenty of people who drive up to Croy to catch the train there

Despite Croy only getting a half hourly service on a line with four trains an hour from Glasgow to Edinburgh?

 

[rail-britain]

A fifteeen minute frequency is more appealing to people than half-hourly as its a case of turn up and go rather than just missing a train and having to wait 30 mins for the next

It's the same here in Cumbernauld
Why use Cumbernauld with its 2 trains per hour, when you can go to Croy with its 4 trains per hour!
Furthermore it's cheaper from Croy...
The only reason I use Cumbernauld is it is much nearer to me

 

[Nightrider]

I notice Croy Station is getting another car park built to hold 700 cars.
Trains are the future.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

2tph is more than generous - if the demand is there, then no doubt SR will upgrade the service. 4tph to start with is exageration beyond belief, and greedy to say the least.

If it is proven demand, then no doubt SR will work with it. Its better than most services in England, AND Scotland. So just prove it.

 

[rail-britain]

I notice Croy Station is getting another car park built to hold 700 cars

Typical, the recent upgrade was insufficient
Personally, they should have closed the existing car park and constructed the new one there
If you think Croy has a parking issue, try Stepps!

 

[me123]

2tph is more than generous - if the demand is there, then no doubt SR will upgrade the service. 4tph to start with is exageration beyond belief, and greedy to say the least.

But the trains are passing through the station slowly (slowing down for a 25mph speed limit) anyway! And, with my local knowledge of the area, I can assure you that the express train will more often than not be stopped at the signal a few hundred yards East of Blairhill anyway as it catches up to the next local service. In fact, I reckon it'll be slowed down/stopped at Easterhouse quite a bit as well. And if four trains an hour is greedy, I'd like to wonder why the lesser used station down the road is getting, guess what, four trains an hour!

I'm arguing that, if it's stopping it at the slightly more lightly used station that will see less use, then it should also stop at the slightly bigger station that's in the heart of a large residential area and is more likely to see a growth in the market through to West Lothian and Edinburgh.
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4 tph too many, one train fails and then its a backlog and hundreds of minutes of delays that you will just moan about anyway, plus how many train per hour are you going to use?? All of them?

Where to start, where to start...

6tph will already be running through the station (two terminate Airdrie, four terminate Edinburgh). Stopping all of them (rather than the planned 4) probably won't increase the chances of a failure.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Despite Croy only getting a half hourly service on a line with four trains an hour from Glasgow to Edinburgh?

I am aware of the service frequency at Croy. I'm using it as an example that there's already a market to Edinburgh that's going to use the station (although it's clearly not an indicator for 4tph, granted).

The main reason I'm advocating 4tph calling at Blairhill is because:

• The trains will be passing through slowly anyway, and with the huge potential market here, it is sensible for them to stop and pick up passengers
• I don't know the TT yet, but I know that the express trains have quite a tight path. They'll need to leave High Street just before a local, and will catch up with the next one by Blairhill. So I can assure you that the train will be stopping at the signal just after Blairhill anyway. And I just think it makes more sense to stop at a station rather than a signal in the middle of nowhere.
• Given my local knowledge, I know fine well that more people would use Blairhill than Sunnyside if it had a 4tph frequency, as it is right in the heart of a thriving, affluent residential area of a large commuter town.

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I also dont see how Sunnyside car park would cope with the sudden influx of park and ride passengers from Blairhill taking up spaces due to the fact the service at Sunnyside is better.

Knowing some people in this area, they will just choose Sunnyside and drive. Particularly people in the Gartsherrie area. There's no doubt about it. People will choose 4tph over 2tph. And Sunnyside's tiny car park is already full by the time the 07:56 leaves in my experience.

 

[rail-britain]

But the trains are passing through the station slowly (slowing down for a 25mph speed limit) anyway!

So why doesn't the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow stop at Carlisle when it passes through the station at 10mph, or on some occasions even stops in Platform
There are loads of other such examples on the SPT network, where a train does not call at a station and just passes through slowly
I was on a Dalmuir - Glasgow QS service, it too passed through some stations very slowly, again limited by the line speed

 

[p.d87]

But the trains are passing through the station slowly (slowing down for a 25mph speed limit) anyway! And, with my local knowledge of the area, I can assure you that the express train will more often than not be stopped at the signal a few hundred yards East of Blairhill anyway as it catches up to the next local service. In fact, I reckon it'll be slowed down/stopped at Easterhouse quite a bit as well. And if four trains an hour is greedy, I'd like to wonder why the lesser used station down the road is getting, guess what, four trains an hour!

I'm arguing that, if it's stopping it at the slightly more lightly used station that will see less use, then it should also stop at the slightly bigger station that's in the heart of a large residential area and is more likely to see a growth in the market through to West Lothian and Edinburgh.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Where to start, where to start...

6tph will already be running through the station (two terminate Airdrie, four terminate Edinburgh). Stopping all of them (rather than the planned 4) probably won't increase the chances of a failure.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I am aware of the service frequency at Croy. I'm using it as an example that there's already a market to Edinburgh that's going to use the station (although it's clearly not an indicator for 4tph, granted).

The main reason I'm advocating 4tph calling at Blairhill is because:

• The trains will be passing through slowly anyway, and with the huge potential market here, it is sensible for them to stop and pick up passengers
• I don't know the TT yet, but I know that the express trains have quite a tight path. They'll need to leave High Street just before a local, and will catch up with the next one by Blairhill. So I can assure you that the train will be stopping at the signal just after Blairhill anyway. And I just think it makes more sense to stop at a station rather than a signal in the middle of nowhere.
• Given my local knowledge, I know fine well that more people would use Blairhill than Sunnyside if it had a 4tph frequency, as it is right in the heart of a thriving, affluent residential area of a large commuter town.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Knowing some people in this area, they will just choose Sunnyside and drive. Particularly people in the Gartsherrie area. There's no doubt about it. People will choose 4tph over 2tph. And Sunnyside's tiny car park is already full by the time the 07:56 leaves in my experience.

I completely agree with the above comment! I also think that most people would not think of getting on a train at Blairhill and changing in order to catch the next Edinburgh, they would most likely sit around waiting half an hour on the next direct train unless an announcement is made to do otherwise. There are at least 5 of the largest areas of Coatbridge I can think of where Blairhill is the closest station compared to Sunnyside where there is realistically only 2 or 3. Another issue I can think of is that the two trains per hour stopping at Blairhill could be the same trains which are stopping at stations in between Bathgate and Drumgelloch which Im pretty sure will become the most overcrowded of all 4tph. Afterall the Class 334 doesn't have a great amount of seats compared to other emu's operating on the line just now. Drumgelloch is being given 4tph although the large car park being built is hoped to take some Airdrie passengers away Im not sure that it will or merits that level of service.

 

[Nightrider]

The stop before Blairhill at Easterhouse must also be up there as a main stop for all Edinburgh bound passengers with the new housing thats been built in the area over recent years.

 

[me123]

Easterhouse is actually a relatively lightly used station. I've seen train stop there in the mid afternoon and not pick anyone up! People in Easterhouse tend to use buses a lot more, because they are a lot more convenient for most people (dropping them off literally at their door, and having a pretty good journey time to Glasgow). On the whole, I imagine that the stops in the East End are more likely to be used mainly by Glasgow-bound passengers, with not many going Eastbound, although I'd love to be proven wrong!

One of the interesting things about Easterhouse is that the station already has two buses an hour to Edinburgh (about 1h8mins to Edinburgh). I wonder if people will continue to use the buses, or if they'll switch to the rails.
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I completely agree with the above comment! I also think that most people would not think of getting on a train at Blairhill and changing in order to catch the next Edinburgh, they would most likely sit around waiting half an hour on the next direct train unless an announcement is made to do otherwise.

If the timetable is as I think it will be (ie, the express passes through Blairhill and Sunnyside 4 minutes after the local), then the transfer probably won't even appear on journey planners! Despite it being a same-platform interchange with next to no chance of missing your connection.

But, that's an issue for when the actual timetable comes out.

 

[tbtc]

I am aware of the service frequency at Croy. I'm using it as an example that there's already a market to Edinburgh that's going to use the station (although it's clearly not an indicator for 4tph, granted)

I picked you up on the mention of Croy as it's an interesting comparison.

A few years ago it had no service to Edinburgh.

Then it got an hourly service (when National Express doubled the Falkirk High route).

Passenger numbers increased, and now it has a half hourly service.

If passenger demand justifies it, I'm sure there's a chance you'll get four trains per hour

So, whilst there are two trains an hour to Edinburgh, four trains per hour pass through Croy for Edinburgh

To be honest, I thought that when the Bathgate line opened there would be a chance it would be just an extension of the half hourly Drumgelloch services to Edinburgh (maintaining the half hourly service through Bathgate). The fact that there will be *four* trains an hour to Edinburgh and *six* an hour to Airdrie is better than we could maybe have expected

My one concern with this line is that it'll fail to attract quite as many passengers as expected. The "higher than expected" useage of the Alloa line has encouraged some people to assume/ hope that other re-openeings will have a similar effect.

However, there was always demand from Alloa to go into Stirling (over six buses an hour between the two). There isn't the same "existing" demand to get from the Monklands to Edinburgh, or from West Lothian to Glasgow. There will be "leisure" demand from day one, but it may take a while for people in Monklands getting jobs in Edinburgh (or people who work in Edinburgh to decide to buy a house in Airdrie/ Coatbridge). Same with Bathgate people working in Glasgow. There will be some examples of this, of course (although these will be people who currently drive, who will be harder to convert to rail than converting bus passengers). But I think it may take a couple of years to build big numbers on the "middle" of the route (there is obvious existing demand for Bathgate people working in Edinburgh, and Airdrie people working in Glasgow)

PS: the last time I used the Coatbridge line, I got off at Sunnyside (for a game at Cliftonhill), but am not biased

 

[me123]

I must admit that the 4tph surprised me as well. I'd have thought the service would have been as you've suggested above (perhaps with peak time enhancements). The planned service pattern is, generally, excellent. My only quibble is what I've been saying all along.

Realistically, the market from all stations along the new line is untested. It's just as untested with Sunnyside as it is with Blairhill. My argument is that both stations would be equally well used and, given the low speed through Blairhill, stopping the train here wouldn't make any real difference to speed and would undoubtedly pick up quite a few extra passengers.

I actually reckon that Livingston and Edinburgh Park to Glasgow will have a huge market, even in the early weeks and months. There's a huge flow of commuters down this corridor as it is, and with the Eastern part of the M8 becoming worse and worse, I'd think quite a few people would like to switch onto rail when the line opens. Although it will take years for the demand to build up, it will probably be quicker than you think. I know that some people who're planning to go to University next year, for example, have been able to consider both cities without the added worry of accommodation costs.