Airdrie-Bathgate service

[The_Stig]

The first issue was a design/manufacturing issue, although how this happened has never been fully released as similar other EMUs did not have this issue, resulting in the wheel sets having to
be removed, modified, and then refitted
This caused the initial delay

I haven't heard that one before. Taking the wheelsets off is a major job, in Siemens factory and over here.

Network Rail also ran into some issues as many of the stations had to be modified or lengthened
Most between Paisley and Ayr/Largs were completed just in time for the timetable, but the other routes were still in progress
However, this was due to a change of contractor that was required, resulting in more time lost

They would have known that the stations would require to be lengthened when they asked for 23m coaches, not really a Siemens problem.

 

[Mex]

I totally agree! They shouldn't be building people's hopes up!

Well, let's not be too hard on poor Scotrail and their put-upon shareholders.

They only spent the entire 3 1/2 year A-B construction phase promising us 4tph, before delivering... 1 per hour.

Which is consistently late.

 

[rail-britain]

Wheelsets issue :
Already discussed before the units had even arrived in the UK, hence why they were late at that stage
Yes, major work getting them off and reprofiling the wheels

They would have known that the stations would require to be lengthened when they asked for 23m coaches, not really a Siemens problem

I know it is nothing to do with the train supplier, this was an issue Network Rail had in getting the stations ready for these units
As above, a change of contractor was required just as work had commenced
Priority was given to stations between Paisley and Ayr/Largs
I visited two of the stations and just as the Class 380s entered service they had yet to be completed, but according to the Network Rail schedule they should have been
Equally, work at one of the stations between Paisley and Gourock had only just started

 

[Failed Unit]

Well, let's not be too hard on poor Scotrail and their put-upon shareholders.

They only spent the entire 3 1/2 year A-B construction phase promising us 4tph, before delivering... 1 per hour.

Which is consistently late.

I must admit when 4tph hits I do worry about the ability of the network to cope. Network rail must be confident or they wouldn't have given them the paths. But timekeeping out of Waverley isn't that hot - I know 2 minutes delays are not much but 1639 out of Waverley for the Bathgate will impact the Glasgow.

God help us when a signal failure at Newbridge hits.

The lines already have no room for error.

 

[me123]

I must admit when 4tph hits I do worry about the ability of the network to cope. Network rail must be confident or they wouldn't have given them the paths. But timekeeping out of Waverley isn't that hot - I know 2 minutes delays are not much but 1639 out of Waverley for the Bathgate will impact the Glasgow.

God help us when a signal failure at Newbridge hits.

The lines already have no room for error.

The biggest adverse effect of Airdrie-Bathgate, IMO, is going to be timekeeping. Edinburgh-Haymarket and Partick-Hyndland are two of the busiest, if not the two busiest, sections of line in Scotland. In particular with Partick-Hyndland, even a short delay can have knock on effects on a huge number of services. Combining the two in a single service is a risky move.

But, on the other hand, there's lots of potential to minimise disruption. There's plenty of turn-back opportunities (eg Bathgate and Airdrie) which could reduce the number of trains passing through affected areas when things get bad. Terminating some services at Bathgate, whilst not popular, might be the best way to ensure a robust timetable. You've also got the LMD at Bathgate that could be used to start a service at Bathgate (and cancel it from Edinburgh-Bathgate). So, hopefully, they'll make use of these to minimise disruption at the busiest times.

 

[tbtc]

The biggest adverse effect of Airdrie-Bathgate, IMO, is going to be timekeeping. Edinburgh-Haymarket and Partick-Hyndland are two of the busiest, if not the two busiest, sections of line in Scotland. In particular with Partick-Hyndland, even a short delay can have knock on effects on a huge number of services. Combining the two in a single service is a risky move

I hadn't thought of it like that, but when you put it like that it sounds like a very brave/foolish move!

As ever with UK railways, when it works, it's beautiful. When things go wrong, there are very few contingencies... (I appreciate that there are some turnbacks, as you've said)

 

[rail-britain]

There is quite a lot of recovery time, such that the trains quite often sit at either Glasgow QS, Glasgow C, or Dalmuir

Equally, the services through Glasgow C may also be considered as half-n-half services
Dalmuir - Glasgow C / Glasgow C - Motherwell

Personally, I am going to wait until the full timetable arrives, take a Central Scotland Rover and just see what it is like on a working day basis
I might be waiting some time... the summer might be over by then!

 

[kylemore]

Used the service for second time today, I feel that £10.30 is a bit rip-offish for an off peak Queen St to Bathgate return, £6.50/£7.00 would be about right.
Visiting friends in Whitburn it seems that this has been noted by the locals who are overwhelmingly car dependent. They want to use the train but if a family shopping/leisure trip to Glasgow is going to cost them twice if not three times as much as the marginal cost of taking the car they already own it does not bode well.
The infrastructure side has been well thought out but it seems the "traffic" side has not. No doubt commuter traffic will develop but the off peak/leisure traffic must also develop if the service is to be more than a First group subsidising at the expense of the taxpayer project.

 

[Failed Unit]

The price is about the same as Linlithgow at a similar distance to Glasgow. The old car thing also depends on if you can be bothered with traffic and parking. Many people can't but rail is expensive short distance on popular flows. Linlithgow gets good off peak numbers to Glasgow so no reason Livingston and Bathgate won't.

 

[rail-britain]

Used the service for second time today, I feel that £10.30 is a bit rip-offish for an off peak Queen St to Bathgate return

Yes, there are loads of similar concerns over the high fares
When you compare a Glasgow QS - Airdrie at £5.40, Airdrie - Edinburgh at £11.10, and Glasgow QS - Edinburgh at £11.40

 

[me123]

The off-peak fares are spectacularly high. Airdrie-Edinburgh is only slightly lower than Glasgow-Edinburgh, as mentioned above. But there is a significant difference in the anytime fares. Rail-britain has (perhaps inadvertently) compared two different fares; the OPDR ADR-EDB with the ADR ADR-GLQ. In reality, the off peak day return from Airdrie-Glasgow is £4.10 compared with the £11.10 to Edinburgh.

The difference is going to be exacerbated by the fact that SPT's fares are rather heavily subsidised. I think the difference is rather too large to make Edinburgh an attractive option TBH, and as a result I think it will contribute to low passenger numbers; why go to Edinburgh when Glasgow is less than half the price, and a lot closer?

That all said, I actually think the £11.10 to Edinburgh is actually a very reasonable fare, when you consider the length of the route and the alternatives (ie, drive down the monotonous M8, which will soon have M80-esque roadworks and try to then drive through Edinburgh). I just don't think the people of Airdrie will be very happy to pay that price too often.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Used the service for second time today, I feel that £10.30 is a bit rip-offish for an off peak Queen St to Bathgate return, £6.50/£7.00 would be about right.

I think that would be about right as well. I'd say £8.50 at the most, basing it on the price from Glasgow-Edinburgh. But, as I mentioned above, it's just the off peak tickets where this discrepancy lies. The anytime fares are much more proportional IIRC. And besides, I've always found the OPDR between Glasgow and Edinburgh to be exceptional value for money.

 

[rail-britain]

The difference is going to be exacerbated by the fact that SPT's fares are rather heavily subsidised

Shouldn't be, SPT no longer subsidise rail fares, but it is a higher rail franchise commitment rate in the SPT area
Hence why rail fare rises have been higher in the SPT area, compared to the rest of the ScotRail network

 

[tbtc]

Airdrie-Edinburgh is only slightly lower than Glasgow-Edinburgh,

True, but it was more expensive from Airdrie (than from Glasgow) until a few weeks ago, so its still a cheaper price and a better service (than before)

 

[me123]

Hmm... I was under the impression that we still had rather cheap rail fares despite SPT not having anything to do with it any more, although I was aware that the issue was being "corrected" (ie, fares were going up faster here than elsewhere - something that was rather noticeable this year).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

True, but it was more expensive from Airdrie (than from Glasgow) until a few weeks ago, so its still a cheaper price and a better service (than before)

Yes, but it's hardly low enough to entice people to travel to Edinburgh "on a whim". If you're going somewhere for some shopping, you're going to go to Glasgow as you would have done before. Those who went into Glasgow and back out to Edinburgh again know what the fare is, and like me they have been surprised that it's no cheaper to go from Airdrie than it is from Edinburgh. It's fair to say that they think they're getting a bad deal; 10 miles shorter and only 30p cheaper!

 

[tbtc]

Yes, but it's hardly low enough to entice people to travel to Edinburgh "on a whim". If you're going somewhere for some shopping, you're going to go to Glasgow as you would have done before. Those who went into Glasgow and back out to Edinburgh again know what the fare is, and like me they have been surprised that it's no cheaper to go from Airdrie than it is from Edinburgh. It's fair to say that they think they're getting a bad deal; 10 miles shorter and only 30p cheaper!

I'm not saying its cheap from Airdrie, just trying to put it into perspective. Although, with only one train an hour on weekdays, FSR aren't in a position to try to increase demand (because there's no capacity for it!)

 

[Bittern]

I really want the railway to do well -if not just for the effect it's failure would have on future reopenings- but with the whole one TPH situation instead of the promised four and the immense fares mentioned above, I fear people will stick to the Falkirk mainline.

I'd also like to sidestep from the railway for a second and talk about the cycle path. If not for the lack of a variety of trains, the replacement path would likely prove to be an interesting place for enthusiasts. That said, I still intend to walk along the replacement when it opens. Does anyone have any ideas when this will be?

 

[me123]

This was always going to be completed some time after the railway. It should be open in Spring 2011, just in time for the better weather. There's been no word on any delay to this part of the project, and it's totally separate at this time so I wouldn't expect this to be delayed as a result of the ongoing issues.

 

[route101]

I was on the line at the Weekend and noticed that they have began tarmacing the cycle path around Hillend Reservoir. Anyone know how busy the Rail Replacement services serving Armadale , Caldercruix and Drumgelloch are ? Ive seen the drivers bored at Bathgate stn.

 

[Failed Unit]

I wonder how many people on the Drumgelloch - Glasgow route already have the ultimate destination to Edinburgh and are currently travelling via Glasgow. I suspect at the moment the number may not be insignificatant. I suspect it will also take some traffic away from the route via Shotts from Livingston and Bathgate.

I guess we don't know as well how many people currently drive to Croy.

I suspect passenger numbers on the line will be healthy when it get going. I am hoping to take a trip at the weekend. A return to Airdrie from Linlithgow @ £14 seems to be valid both via Edinburgh Park and Glasgow so a nice little circle for me.

 

[Damien1986]

I read on another blog scotrail.co.uk that more class 380 units have been accepted and are on driver training and was wondering if you would agree that with the arrival of these extra units may allow more class 334 units to be cascaded onto the Airdrie to Bathgate/North Clyde Line services to allow the present Monday to Friday Airdrie to Bathgate route to go to 2 t.p.h instead of just one?

 

[Jonny]

What you also have to remember is that stations Drumgelloch side of Glasgow with still have 4tph as per current timetable, its just some with now have an additional 2 with the Milngavie service. Also remember the whole aim of A-B is to bring Airdrie/Drumgelloch area closer to Edinburgh as thats the key market they will try to capture, not say people from Blairhill who will mostly always use a service to Glasgow as currently, its quicker and cheaper.

Quicker and cheaper isn't usually the governing factor, rather what's on offer at each destination is (although it might be for some more marginal trips).

 

[me123]

Good news; Caldercruix is now open, with neither pomp nor circumstance. A rather dull opening today, with neither pomp nor circumstance. This now leaves only Drumgelloch and Armadale to open, and these are expected "soon". Looks like they will be on target for the end of February (based on the revised estimate).

If Caldercruix is anything to go by, expect little or no notice of the other stations until the very last minute.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Good news; Caldercruix is now open, with neither pomp nor circumstance. A rather dull opening today, with neither pomp nor circumstance. This now leaves only Drumgelloch and Armadale to open, and these are expected "soon". Looks like they will be on target for the end of February (based on the revised estimate).

If Caldercruix is anything to go by, expect little or no notice of the other stations until the very last minute.

I was on the first eastbound train off Caldercruix today, joined 0803 at Charing Cross. there was one photographing it, and one videoing it, as well as a member of staff waiting for its arrival, there may have been more on the W/B platform, i really don't know. For the record, Armadale looks good to go, but Drumgelloch still needs signs, screens and posters putting up, and they were still only halfway gone with the car park today...

 

[me123]

TBH, I'm surprised that the car park is that much of an issue, especially for Drumgelloch. Would it not be possible to open the stations, but not the car parks? I know the people of Drumgelloch are desperate to get their train back, and given that they didn't have a car park before I'm sure they'll just be pleased to get their station back. Although I obviously don't know the practicalities of setting up a walking route through the unfinished car park.

 

[Damien1986]

I read on the scot-rail.co.uk website that at leat 7 or 8 more class 380 units maybe getting accepted and wouldn't this be great news for Airdrie To Bathgate as it will now mean 2 trains per hour Monday to Friday instaed of the 1 as at present?

 

[rail-britain]

this be great news for Airdrie To Bathgate as it will now mean 2 trains per hour Monday to Friday instaed of the 1 as at present?

Sadly no change due until May 2011

 

[Bittern]

320s are still working Helensburgh - Airdrie services. Would it not make more sense to take the 334s off the Argyle Line and use them to replace as much of the 320s on North Clyde as possible (with 320s taking over Argyle duties alongside the 318s) and extend the Helensburgh- Airdrie services to Edinburgh, thus effectively giving a half hour service over A-B?

 

[rail-britain]

Class 320 units cannot operate without restrictions on the Argyle line, yet
Therefore the delayed swap of Class 334 and Class 320 units cannot take place

 

[Bittern]

Airdrie-Bathgate goes half hourly tomorrow!

 

[swt_passenger]

Airdrie-Bathgate goes half hourly tomorrow!

Is that because rail-britain has finally approved some more trains?