Aircon on ATW 158s

[transmanche]

Over the past couple of weeks I've made a number of journeys on ATW 158s; on the North Wales Coast line, Cambrian line and the Chester-Shrewsbury line.[*].

Of all these journeys, only one train had working aircon - and that was only in one unit of a 2x2 car combination. All the units have recently been refurbished, so what's up with the aircon? Or is it a long-standing issue that wasn't addressed during the refurbishment?

* In fact, I would have expected to see 175s on many of these journeys (except of course on the Cambrian) - have they been hiding?!?

 

[asylumxl]

I believe it's a long standing issue with the 158s. Some are better than others when it comes to reliability.

I don't know what causes it to be unreliable but I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain!

 

[Hyphen]

Of all these journeys, only one train had working aircon - and that was only in one unit of a 2x2 car combination.

I don't know if this is related but on Friday evening I was waiting at Shrewsbury for a Cambrian Line service to take me to Wolverhampton but it was announced as having been delayed due to extreme heat (it left Aberystwyth on time but was 25 down past Caersws). Sadly, they didn't elaborate on "heat".

 

[Rich McLean]

Over the past couple of weeks I've made a number of journeys on ATW 158s; on the North Wales Coast line, Cambrian line and the Chester-Shrewsbury line.[*].

Of all these journeys, only one train had working aircon - and that was only in one unit of a 2x2 car combination. All the units have recently been refurbished, so what's up with the aircon? Or is it a long-standing issue that wasn't addressed during the refurbishment?

* In fact, I would have expected to see 175s on many of these journeys (except of course on the Cambrian) - have they been hiding?!?

I don't think the Air Con was touched on those units (apart from a clean/service maybe).

The Air Con systems have a long standing problem, and the only way to combat it is to install brand new air con systems

 

[transmanche]

I don't know if this is related but on Friday evening I was waiting at Shrewsbury for a Cambrian Line service to take me to Wolverhampton but it was announced as having been delayed due to extreme heat (it left Aberystwyth on time but was 25 down past Caersws). Sadly, they didn't elaborate on "heat".

If it was the 19:30 ex Aberystwyth, then I was on that train as far as Welshpool.

It didn't leave Aberystwyth on time - the incoming working was over 20 mins late - so probably left about 15-20 late. (I think it lost further time at the Talerddig passing loop.)

 

[507 001]

Cambrian services seem to be struggling to keep to time of late, I know the one I was supposed to cross at Cae Pawb on Saturday was over an hour late which meant a nice clear run straight through!

The met-camm aircon on 158's has always been pretty useless, iirc a couple of TOC's started fitting a better unit?

 

[rmt4ever]

Wha about the one on FGW 166s ? That's hopeless too

 

[dmspastor]

Wow!

I used to travel between Aberystwyth and rest of the UK for 4 years and never noticesthat ATW/class158 this trains have air con actually... Good to know. I always believed that they are 2 settings on this train (pig in the oven mode in summer and meat in the freezer in winter).

I can write for many pages about amazing stories related to train from Aberystwyth to Birmingham was late. i really like* to travel on Cambrian route as I know that it will be action packed adventure.

I just learn that if you want enjoy beautiful view on Cambiran route,then do not expect 2 things:
* DO NOT EXPECT being on time
* DO NOT EXPECT mobile range (which means no internet)

As long as you accept this 2 limitation ,then travelling is will nice thanks to stunning view (when is sunny*) .

* more likely you will won in scratch lottery than travel is sunny day,but still view is nice)

 

[starrymarkb]

Some TOCs have fitted an upgraded Air Con unit. You can see the large intakes for it on the roof above the entrance doors. No vents means original aircon kit. Certainly on 159s it's very loud outside, but very cool inside

IIRC Central Trains and South West Trains fitted the upgraded air-con. I'm not sure if the former CT sets with ATW were fitted before the transfer.

 

[edwin_m]

The refitted ones have a grille in the roof near each door. The originals had a smaller snorkel-type vent in the same position.

 

[starrymarkb]

Refitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaggers/3304616566/

Original
http://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/4770480205/

ATW 158 still has original
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iancvt55/6877335415/

 

[PHILIPE]

FGW 158s are also prone to Aircon not working in hot weather. This situation has prevailed since 1990 when they were first introduced and still hasn't been sorted. I believe that SWTs 158s and 159s work OK as they use equipment from a different supplier now.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Refitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaggers/3304616566/

Original
http://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/4770480205/

ATW 158 still has original
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iancvt55/6877335415/

arrived back at Newtown with sweaty armpits tonight I can assure posters ATW 158 air con was not up to today on the unit i was on from Shrewsbury.

 

[SprinterMan]

It is a real shame ATW didn't fir new aircon, because aside from this the refurbishment is superb.

Adam

 

[tsr]

Wha about the one on FGW 166s ? That's hopeless too

I'm pretty sure the windows have been forced open by passengers or opened by the guards on some FGW 16xs. This does not help! That said, you probably don't want the air con to work - there have been several incidents where twigs and leaves have blown out onto passengers, which is most disconcerting. I jest not.

 

[Muzer]

I heard that the 158s were made to use these awesome chemicals called CFCs, which were all the rage in those days.

We all know how that went

Which is apparently why the original air con systems were so unreliable - they had to make do with using different substances for which they weren't optimised.

SWT and EMT units, and perhaps a few others, I believe, have the replaced air cons - people have already shown how to tell them apart. The new ones are much better, though still not amazing - I read one statistic in a Modern Railways article, I can't quite remember it now, but they fail at least an order of magnitude (maybe 2, I can't remember) more frequently than any other part of the trains.

 

[Surreyman]

I'm pretty sure the windows have been forced open by passengers or opened by the guards on some FGW 16xs. This does not help! That said, you probably don't want the air con to work - there have been several incidents where twigs and leaves have blown out onto passengers, which is most disconcerting. I jest not.

I travel on the North Downs line and during warm sunny weather it is a regular occurrence for the air-con to be defective and the windows open, this has been the norm since the units were introduced in 1993.
It is actually a better experience if a 165 is 'subbed' in hot weather.

 

[Blindtraveler]

unsure what Scotrail have done but suspect nothing as my last few 158 journeys have been a bit hot to say the least!

 

[Marklund]

unsure what Scotrail have done but suspect nothing as my last few 158 journeys have been a bit hot to say the least!

The original ScotRail 158s were upgraded over 10 years ago.

 

[tsr]

I travel on the North Downs line and during warm sunny weather it is a regular occurrence for the air-con to be defective and the windows open, this has been the norm since the units were introduced in 1993.
It is actually a better experience if a 165 is 'subbed' in hot weather.

Fine if it's defective, but I've known some people to open the windows when the aircon is still working (or trying to).

I agree though that you may as well have a 165. I also travel on the NDL - not exactly on a regular basis, but still pretty frequently.

 

[Mugby]

I sit there in total disbelief when I see people trying to open windows on a 158.

At first it's amusing then I think, how brainless is it possible for someone to be!

 

[edwin_m]

I sit there in total disbelief when I see people trying to open windows on a 158.

At first it's amusing then I think, how brainless is it possible for someone to be!

To be fair they look very much like the hopper windows on other classes. Or maybe their brains are just fried in the heat?

They're also equivalent in the way they make no difference to the person sitting under them but create a draught at the far end of the coach, or if it's raining the person sitting two seats back gets wet.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Wow!

I used to travel between Aberystwyth and rest of the UK for 4 years and never noticesthat ATW/class158 this trains have air con actually... Good to know. I always believed that they are 2 settings on this train (pig in the oven mode in summer and meat in the freezer in winter).

I can write for many pages about amazing stories related to train from Aberystwyth to Birmingham was late. i really like* to travel on Cambrian route as I know that it will be action packed adventure.

I just learn that if you want enjoy beautiful view on Cambiran route,then do not expect 2 things:
* DO NOT EXPECT being on time
* DO NOT EXPECT mobile range (which means no internet)

As long as you accept this 2 limitation ,then travelling is will nice thanks to stunning view (when is sunny*) .

* more likely you will won in scratch lottery than travel is sunny day,but still view is nice)

Punctuality has been sorted out since dec 08 before that it was c55 percent, mobile is much better since etcs work as well

 

[Muzer]

I've been wondering recently if they can have some kind of temperature-controlled window locking mechanism, such that when the temperature rises beyond a certain value for a certain amount of time, it assumes the air con is broken and unlocks the hopper windows. Though sod's law, that mechanism would likely break

 

[WillPS]

I've been wondering recently if they can have some kind of temperature-controlled window locking mechanism, such that when the temperature rises beyond a certain value for a certain amount of time, it assumes the air con is broken and unlocks the hopper windows. Though sod's law, that mechanism would likely break

Sounds expensive. Most guards will open the window if you ask nicely.

 

[BestWestern]

The best thing that could happen with 158s - short of fitting decent air con, which appears unlikely - would be to retrofit hopper windows all the way along each coach, or at least at every other window. This would then allow decent ventilation on hot days, though obviously at the expense of a quiet environment. SWT has extra ones fitted to some of it's sets I understand.

 

[IanXC]

Northern have been bringing the AC on their 158s back into use over recent months. Seems to be working very well so far!

 

[BestWestern]

Northern have been bringing the AC on their 158s back into use over recent months. Seems to be working very well so far!

It's something that all TOCs - or at least all other TOCs apart from SWT, who lead the way ages ago - should have done by now. These are widespread, long distance trains which have another 20 years in them at least, so this rather fundamental issue ought to be a much higher priority. Being stuck on one in the searing heat is just not acceptable when there are solutions available and your ticket has cost a fortune. If everybody clubbed together presumably a universal solution could be found at sensible cost. Maybe somebody could just go and ask Salisbury depot?! :roll:

It's rather farcical that FGW embarked on a presumably rather expensive project to retrofit cab aircon units (as they have with all of their Sprinter & Pacer stock, which in all other cases is extremely admirable), whilst the saloon equipment remains completely knackered in most cases. SWT took a different approach; they got the saloon aircon working properly and then piped it into the cab! Doh!

 

[455driver]

Re hopper vents.

SWT has extra ones fitted to some of it's sets I understand.

The 159/0 have 2 extra ones per side fitted, they were fitted because the original air con was useless and they felt the need for additional ventilation.

They are a different style of window as well!